6 ms·

This makes me think of the observation that "you can't inspect quality into a product." I mean, what are the use cases for this database? It seems like a fetis

by theoh 10y ago

This makes me think of the observation that "you can't inspect quality into a product." I mean, what are the use cases for this database? It seems like a fetishization of data for data's sake.

wojcech 10y ago
You can use the Barcode to tie things together... smart pantries and stock monitoring depends on standardised(ideally free) access to identifiers for the goods
pjc50 10y ago
The two that I can think of in the time taken to read this comment are easier calorie tracking and avoidance of food allergens.
- croon 10y ago
  I'll nest a few of more here: * Searching alternative foods based on macro composition of a product. * Searching alternative brands to a product, for price, availability or healthier contents. * Tracking changes in a product. * Discovering products based on some user input.
- theoh 10y ago
  Maybe entrepreneurial HN isn't the place to criticise projects which aim to bring free metadata to important consumer markets. Checking what ingredients a product has (or how many calories it contains) seem like necessities only if you are dealing with mysterious processed food. I'll go out on limb here and assert that these problems don't really arise with traditional ingredients or preparations. Seems like a likely losing strategy with this audience.
  - pjc50 10y ago
    I'm not sure what you're getting at here? I think you may be over-reading the critique of Soylent and assuming that everyone's gone in the opposite direction to cook-from-scratch all the time?
    - theoh 10y ago
      Well, I was trying to make a normative rather than positive observation. So, to raise the issue how food "should" work rather than how it does. In that sense I think Soylent would be technically fine if it was clinically proven to be safe in a very rigorous way, but I know a lot of people who would never buy the idea because they have a different vision of how the world should be. The quote below from the openfood.ch website implies that the database is needed because it does not exist. We need a more robust normative debate than that. "Is there a need for such a database? Absolutely. Today, there is no database on Swiss food products that is truly open, free, and - perhaps most importantly - programmatically accessible via an API). The latter point is particularly important as it allows for the creation of an ecosystem around open food data, one of the main goals of openfood.ch."
      - icebraining 10y ago
        Why do we need a normative debate at all?
        theoh 10y ago
        Because leaving everything up to a completely unregulated market is not a good idea. Nobody believes that it is.
        icebraining 10y ago
        So we need a more robust normative debate about the justification for the existence of a database (that serves only for fetishization of data for data's sake), because leaving everything up to a completely unregulated market is not a good idea? I don't see how your argument makes any sense.
        theoh 10y ago
        We do need to think about where we are going and why. That applies with any new system, whether it's driven by the excitement of creating a cool data ecosystem, or just a raw profit motive. Whether this particular system is "useful" or not is not a good test: a lot of silly things get traction, and a lot of worthwhile concepts fail. It's not enough to be an engineer and build "cool stuff". You have to consider the consequences. (I'm using "we" language because I believe in some kind of socialism and strongly object to the narratives being proposed by blockchain enthusiasts or seasteaders who want to give up on the idea of any kind of state authority)
anderscarling 10y ago
Food tracking is an important part of many services, ranging from fitness/calorie tracking style apps to diabetes management. However, keeping and maintaining an accurate food database is a big, costly, task that makes adopting new markets harder and obviously adds a substantial maintenance cost for each market. Projects like this makes more markets accessible, especially small ones as cost per potential user is higher, and lay the foundation for cross-service-collaborations (i.e. log in your fitness app and the data shows up in your diabetes app as well).
- anderscarling 10y ago
  Incidentally, I run a startup - Tummy Lab [1] - that tracks food intake and analyzes the data for co-relations between food and stomach issues. If someone is looking for partnerships with regards to keeping food databases, feel free to contact us! [1]: https://www.tummylab.com https://www.tummylab.com - swedish only, sry :/
  - daenney 10y ago
    That is probably the cutest startup name I've come across.
rhspeer 10y ago
Food nutritional information and packaging photos are essential for B2B foodservice applications where purchasing decision makers are looking for quality data that's quick to find. It's less of a need for B2C applications, but still an important factor depending on the product or brands target consumer. The "label reader" persona is an easy one to see value. These exist commercially, the one I'm most aware of is SmartLabel: Bacon Example: http://smartlabel.labelinsight.com/product/2709932/nutrition http://smartlabel.labelinsight.com/product/2709932/nutrition

by theoh 10y ago

This makes me think of the observation that "you can't inspect quality into a product." I mean, what are the use cases for this database? It seems like a fetishization of data for data's sake.

wojcech 10y ago

You can use the Barcode to tie things together... smart pantries and stock monitoring depends on standardised(ideally free) access to identifiers for the goods

pjc50 10y ago

The two that I can think of in the time taken to read this comment are easier calorie tracking and avoidance of food allergens.

croon 10y ago
I'll nest a few of more here: * Searching alternative foods based on macro composition of a product. * Searching alternative brands to a product, for price, availability or healthier contents. * Tracking changes in a product. * Discovering products based on some user input.
theoh 10y ago
Maybe entrepreneurial HN isn't the place to criticise projects which aim to bring free metadata to important consumer markets. Checking what ingredients a product has (or how many calories it contains) seem like necessities only if you are dealing with mysterious processed food. I'll go out on limb here and assert that these problems don't really arise with traditional ingredients or preparations. Seems like a likely losing strategy with this audience.
- pjc50 10y ago
  I'm not sure what you're getting at here? I think you may be over-reading the critique of Soylent and assuming that everyone's gone in the opposite direction to cook-from-scratch all the time?
  - theoh 10y ago
    Well, I was trying to make a normative rather than positive observation. So, to raise the issue how food "should" work rather than how it does. In that sense I think Soylent would be technically fine if it was clinically proven to be safe in a very rigorous way, but I know a lot of people who would never buy the idea because they have a different vision of how the world should be. The quote below from the openfood.ch website implies that the database is needed because it does not exist. We need a more robust normative debate than that. "Is there a need for such a database? Absolutely. Today, there is no database on Swiss food products that is truly open, free, and - perhaps most importantly - programmatically accessible via an API). The latter point is particularly important as it allows for the creation of an ecosystem around open food data, one of the main goals of openfood.ch."
    - icebraining 10y ago
      Why do we need a normative debate at all?
      - theoh 10y ago
        Because leaving everything up to a completely unregulated market is not a good idea. Nobody believes that it is.
        icebraining 10y ago
        So we need a more robust normative debate about the justification for the existence of a database (that serves only for fetishization of data for data's sake), because leaving everything up to a completely unregulated market is not a good idea? I don't see how your argument makes any sense.
        theoh 10y ago
        We do need to think about where we are going and why. That applies with any new system, whether it's driven by the excitement of creating a cool data ecosystem, or just a raw profit motive. Whether this particular system is "useful" or not is not a good test: a lot of silly things get traction, and a lot of worthwhile concepts fail. It's not enough to be an engineer and build "cool stuff". You have to consider the consequences. (I'm using "we" language because I believe in some kind of socialism and strongly object to the narratives being proposed by blockchain enthusiasts or seasteaders who want to give up on the idea of any kind of state authority)

anderscarling 10y ago

Food tracking is an important part of many services, ranging from fitness/calorie tracking style apps to diabetes management. However, keeping and maintaining an accurate food database is a big, costly, task that makes adopting new markets harder and obviously adds a substantial maintenance cost for each market. Projects like this makes more markets accessible, especially small ones as cost per potential user is higher, and lay the foundation for cross-service-collaborations (i.e. log in your fitness app and the data shows up in your diabetes app as well).

anderscarling 10y ago
Incidentally, I run a startup - Tummy Lab [1] - that tracks food intake and analyzes the data for co-relations between food and stomach issues. If someone is looking for partnerships with regards to keeping food databases, feel free to contact us! [1]: https://www.tummylab.com https://www.tummylab.com - swedish only, sry :/
- daenney 10y ago
  That is probably the cutest startup name I've come across.

rhspeer 10y ago

Food nutritional information and packaging photos are essential for B2B foodservice applications where purchasing decision makers are looking for quality data that's quick to find. It's less of a need for B2C applications, but still an important factor depending on the product or brands target consumer. The "label reader" persona is an easy one to see value. These exist commercially, the one I'm most aware of is SmartLabel: Bacon Example: http://smartlabel.labelinsight.com/product/2709932/nutrition http://smartlabel.labelinsight.com/product/2709932/nutrition