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So how should he fund his work? Can you offer him some sort of alternative method that's acceptable to you? Donation buttons are a sort of ad. Paywalls rarely w

by johneth 10y ago

So how should he fund his work? Can you offer him some sort of alternative method that's acceptable to you? Donation buttons are a sort of ad. Paywalls rarely work, especially in niche content like his. How else should he fund it? > Ranting against this behavior is not in Troy Hunt's interest because guess what: the web is big. He's replaceable. So he should just suck it up? Why? > This is why his ads are being blocked. Full stop. The market has spoken. If this is the market speaking, it's going to eat itself. On that trajectory, it's only a matter of time before everything of value is behind a paywall of some description.

omginternets 10y ago
>So how should he fund his work? He should serve ads I want to consume. This is the norm: it's called native advertising. Exactly how he goes about doing this is frankly his problem, but the bottom line is that the advertisment should also have value for me as a consumer. It should be informative, unintrusive, well-designed and enjoyable. This can take the form of sponsored posts, for instance (with the usual caveats surrounding such things). What I'm propsing is not rare. Pocket does this extremely well. It does imply, however, that you can't lazily slap a link somewhere on a site.
- johneth 10y ago
  > He should serve ads I want to consume. This is the norm: it's called native advertising. You enjoy consuming glorified PR pieces, that aren't distinguished as such? To me, that seems much more underhanded and deceitful that a simple sponsorship message, or even something like AdSense. At least they're distinguished from content. In my opinion, there are too many ethical issues surrounding native advertising, not least of which is the distortion of content.
  - omginternets 10y ago
    I do when they are signaled and add value. The second bit it crucial. If it's just a simple plug, I'm likely to hate it. If it provides a service (e.g.: informs me about a topic I'm interested in), then it suddenly becomes acceptable. So no, I don't enjoy consuming glorified PR pieces that aren't distinguished as such, but that's not what I'm advocating.
- Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
  I used to work as a print magazine editor. "Advertorial", as native advertising in print was called, was loathed and rightly so. It was viewed as a way to hoodwink the reader, suggesting to them that this advertising copy ("buy this car, it's great!") came with the impartial seal of approval of the editorial staff. There would be a little "Sponsored Content" disclaimer at the top, but it was easily missed. Every editor I knew would strongly resist the sales staff's attempt to get us to run advertorials. By contrast, display advertising - brash, colourful, couldn't be mistaken for editorial - was understood not to be in conflict. Occasionally an advertiser would threaten to pull their ads because we'd written something they didn't like (Casio once pulled all their advertising after I reviewed a terrible digital piano of theirs and pointed out how terrible it was). Our response was generally "ta-ra then". There's some irony that we've now come 180°, and on the web, advertorials are considered good, display advertising bad.
  - omginternets 10y ago
    Certain magazines (Time, Newsweek, The Atlantic, ...) have journalistic responsibilities. Web sites like troyhunt.com do not. This is the crucial difference. I don't care that a commercial site is trying to sell me stuff. I do care that journalists -- who serve a crucial political and social function -- are actually peddling widgets for the ACME corporation instead of acting in the public interest. As such, advertorials are a problem in journalism, but not in commerce (provided they are well-labeled, etc).
- CountSessine 10y ago
  Exactly how he goes about doing this is frankly his problem, but the bottom line is that the advertisment should also have value for me as a consumer. Surely you have to be at least a bit aware of the fact that the only way to serve ads that you, omginternets, will find value in would be to track you and your viewing and buying habits all over the internet, right? Which is one of the things that adblockers seek to circumvent... It should be informative, unintrusive, well-designed and enjoyable. This can take the form of sponsored posts, for instance (with the usual caveats surrounding such things). But this was a sponsored post? And you still seem to be pretty indignant about it. In fact you called troyhunt "part of the problem".
  - omginternets 10y ago
    >Surely you have to be at least a bit aware of the fact that the only way to serve ads that you, omginternets, will find value in would be to track you and your viewing and buying habits all over the internet, right? Which is one of the things that adblockers seek to circumvent... And surely I have, despite your strangely snide tone. This is where relevance is particularly important: the pot has to be pretty sweet for me to accept tracking.
    - CountSessine 10y ago
      And surely I have, despite your strangely snide tone. Sorry - no snideness intended. It seemed like a bit of a contradiction to me, that's all. I myself believe that web advertising is just completely broken; I use an ad-blocker for safety and because on mobile the browsing difference with and without an ad blocker is like night vs day. But I'm also very aware that a lot of creative people earn their livings with advertising and I'm hoping we can figure out a good technological solution to this problem of making web advertising less-awful. Maybe micro-transactions. Maybe an <advertisement> tag that lives outside the DOM and doesn't affect page loading. I don't know.
billybiro 10y ago
Troy's website is (or should be) funded out of his own pocket. His website, is itself, one huge advert for himself, his skills, knowledge and experience as a security expert. His website, advert though it may be, is full of great content and gives him increased exposure. Through this, he generates additional revenue (i.e. his own personal income) far more than he would do if he didn't have the website and thus, the increased exposure. Therefore, Troy Hunt is the advertiser and he should pay for his advert (his entire website) out of his own funds, since this is the very thing that generates him (additional) revenue.

by johneth 10y ago

omginternets 10y ago

>So how should he fund his work? He should serve ads I want to consume. This is the norm: it's called native advertising. Exactly how he goes about doing this is frankly his problem, but the bottom line is that the advertisment should also have value for me as a consumer. It should be informative, unintrusive, well-designed and enjoyable. This can take the form of sponsored posts, for instance (with the usual caveats surrounding such things). What I'm propsing is not rare. Pocket does this extremely well. It does imply, however, that you can't lazily slap a link somewhere on a site.

johneth 10y ago
> He should serve ads I want to consume. This is the norm: it's called native advertising. You enjoy consuming glorified PR pieces, that aren't distinguished as such? To me, that seems much more underhanded and deceitful that a simple sponsorship message, or even something like AdSense. At least they're distinguished from content. In my opinion, there are too many ethical issues surrounding native advertising, not least of which is the distortion of content.
- omginternets 10y ago
  I do when they are signaled and add value. The second bit it crucial. If it's just a simple plug, I'm likely to hate it. If it provides a service (e.g.: informs me about a topic I'm interested in), then it suddenly becomes acceptable. So no, I don't enjoy consuming glorified PR pieces that aren't distinguished as such, but that's not what I'm advocating.
Doctor_Fegg 10y ago
I used to work as a print magazine editor. "Advertorial", as native advertising in print was called, was loathed and rightly so. It was viewed as a way to hoodwink the reader, suggesting to them that this advertising copy ("buy this car, it's great!") came with the impartial seal of approval of the editorial staff. There would be a little "Sponsored Content" disclaimer at the top, but it was easily missed. Every editor I knew would strongly resist the sales staff's attempt to get us to run advertorials. By contrast, display advertising - brash, colourful, couldn't be mistaken for editorial - was understood not to be in conflict. Occasionally an advertiser would threaten to pull their ads because we'd written something they didn't like (Casio once pulled all their advertising after I reviewed a terrible digital piano of theirs and pointed out how terrible it was). Our response was generally "ta-ra then". There's some irony that we've now come 180°, and on the web, advertorials are considered good, display advertising bad.
- omginternets 10y ago
  Certain magazines (Time, Newsweek, The Atlantic, ...) have journalistic responsibilities. Web sites like troyhunt.com do not. This is the crucial difference. I don't care that a commercial site is trying to sell me stuff. I do care that journalists -- who serve a crucial political and social function -- are actually peddling widgets for the ACME corporation instead of acting in the public interest. As such, advertorials are a problem in journalism, but not in commerce (provided they are well-labeled, etc).
CountSessine 10y ago
Exactly how he goes about doing this is frankly his problem, but the bottom line is that the advertisment should also have value for me as a consumer. Surely you have to be at least a bit aware of the fact that the only way to serve ads that you, omginternets, will find value in would be to track you and your viewing and buying habits all over the internet, right? Which is one of the things that adblockers seek to circumvent... It should be informative, unintrusive, well-designed and enjoyable. This can take the form of sponsored posts, for instance (with the usual caveats surrounding such things). But this was a sponsored post? And you still seem to be pretty indignant about it. In fact you called troyhunt "part of the problem".
- omginternets 10y ago
  >Surely you have to be at least a bit aware of the fact that the only way to serve ads that you, omginternets, will find value in would be to track you and your viewing and buying habits all over the internet, right? Which is one of the things that adblockers seek to circumvent... And surely I have, despite your strangely snide tone. This is where relevance is particularly important: the pot has to be pretty sweet for me to accept tracking.
  - CountSessine 10y ago
    And surely I have, despite your strangely snide tone. Sorry - no snideness intended. It seemed like a bit of a contradiction to me, that's all. I myself believe that web advertising is just completely broken; I use an ad-blocker for safety and because on mobile the browsing difference with and without an ad blocker is like night vs day. But I'm also very aware that a lot of creative people earn their livings with advertising and I'm hoping we can figure out a good technological solution to this problem of making web advertising less-awful. Maybe micro-transactions. Maybe an <advertisement> tag that lives outside the DOM and doesn't affect page loading. I don't know.

billybiro 10y ago

Troy's website is (or should be) funded out of his own pocket. His website, is itself, one huge advert for himself, his skills, knowledge and experience as a security expert. His website, advert though it may be, is full of great content and gives him increased exposure. Through this, he generates additional revenue (i.e. his own personal income) far more than he would do if he didn't have the website and thus, the increased exposure. Therefore, Troy Hunt is the advertiser and he should pay for his advert (his entire website) out of his own funds, since this is the very thing that generates him (additional) revenue.