3 ms·

While I'm sympathetic to most of your argument, it does beg the question, move where?

sangnoir 10y ago
Somalia[1] looks like a good place to go if I didn't want to be burdened by government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia
simonh 10y ago
Perhaps my final statement was a bit glib, but personally I feel we are born into this world with a whole ton of obligations. We are nurtured, educated, protected. In many parts of the world, we are assigned inalienable rights just through the fact of being human beings. Whatever we do is founded on the hard work and achievements of others, but in most countries in the modern era very few claims are made on us in return. In past ages we were expected, or even required to die or at least kill and risk death in defense of our society. Nowadays you can be brought up, educated to a decent standard, benefit from all of society's resources and benefits to the age of adulthood and then swan off to some other part of the world for the rest of our lives, obligation free. That's a pretty amazing deal, by historical or really any standards.
- mindcrime 10y ago
  but personally I feel we are born into this world with a whole ton of obligations. How in the world can one be born with obligations? Especially considering that you didn't even ask to be born to begin with? When you're born you certainly haven't had a chance to voluntarily enter into any contracts, or accept any burdens. What you're talking about sounds like slavery to me.
  - simonh 10y ago
    Laws and their enforcement are inherently coercive, but slavery is a specific thing distinguished by the fact that it is imposed through an asymmetric application of the law. Slaves and the owners are unreasonably assigned different rights under the law. That's the primary distinction that makes it immoral. Do you feel unfairly and unreasonably constrained by the laws which oblige you to refrain from wantonly murdering and abusing those around you at will? Do you feel enslaved by those laws, or merely coerced?
    - mindcrime 10y ago
      Laws and their enforcement are inherently coercive Not if the law is no more than the collective extension to our individual, innate right to self-defense.[1] [1]: http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
- malloryerik 10y ago
  Sorry to reply so late. But like you, it seems, I'm also interested in the tension between social welfare (education, medicine) and national borders. I'm saying this as someone who wants 10 million new immigrants to the USA per year.

Somalia[1] looks like a good place to go if I didn't want to be burdened by government. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Somalia

simonh 10y ago

Perhaps my final statement was a bit glib, but personally I feel we are born into this world with a whole ton of obligations. We are nurtured, educated, protected. In many parts of the world, we are assigned inalienable rights just through the fact of being human beings. Whatever we do is founded on the hard work and achievements of others, but in most countries in the modern era very few claims are made on us in return. In past ages we were expected, or even required to die or at least kill and risk death in defense of our society. Nowadays you can be brought up, educated to a decent standard, benefit from all of society's resources and benefits to the age of adulthood and then swan off to some other part of the world for the rest of our lives, obligation free. That's a pretty amazing deal, by historical or really any standards.

mindcrime 10y ago
but personally I feel we are born into this world with a whole ton of obligations. How in the world can one be born with obligations? Especially considering that you didn't even ask to be born to begin with? When you're born you certainly haven't had a chance to voluntarily enter into any contracts, or accept any burdens. What you're talking about sounds like slavery to me.
- simonh 10y ago
  Laws and their enforcement are inherently coercive, but slavery is a specific thing distinguished by the fact that it is imposed through an asymmetric application of the law. Slaves and the owners are unreasonably assigned different rights under the law. That's the primary distinction that makes it immoral. Do you feel unfairly and unreasonably constrained by the laws which oblige you to refrain from wantonly murdering and abusing those around you at will? Do you feel enslaved by those laws, or merely coerced?
  - mindcrime 10y ago
    Laws and their enforcement are inherently coercive Not if the law is no more than the collective extension to our individual, innate right to self-defense.[1] [1]: http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html http://bastiat.org/en/the_law.html
malloryerik 10y ago
Sorry to reply so late. But like you, it seems, I'm also interested in the tension between social welfare (education, medicine) and national borders. I'm saying this as someone who wants 10 million new immigrants to the USA per year.