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> Our only office is Slack. You mistyped Mattermost :) Seriously, no reason to share all your company inner workings with a random 3rd party when it takes lit

> Our only office is Slack. You mistyped Mattermost :) Seriously, no reason to share all your company inner workings with a random 3rd party when it takes literally 5 minutes to set up a completely private (and also free!) clone of the same.

couac 10y ago
You're absolutely right! When we started, Mattermost did not exist (or was version 0.0.0.1). Now, just like GitLab, it is a very serious thing and we consider using it instead of relying on a 3rd party. Yet, we are a very small team and cannot dedicate too much time in maintaining/upgrading apps :\
- unixhero 10y ago
  Gitlab can be run "selfhosted" but still turnkey. Just look up Digitalocean or Bitnami.
- jhoechtl 10y ago
  You may find https://try.gogs.io/ https://try.gogs.io/ interesting, which is much less resource hungry, performs better and got only LFS support as of recent.
Roritharr 10y ago
We tried. Oh we tried. But the mobile apps being not native made the mobile usage drop like a rock compared to Slack, leading to the fact that it was harder to reach people than via the old Slack. When I saw that Rocket.Chat also used non-native clients leading to similar complaints, we just dropped the whole project and moved back to Slack.
- bpicolo 10y ago
  That's a blessing in disguise, can avoid taking work with you everywhere you go.
  - samtho 10y ago
    I'm sure we all understand what you're trying to say here, but this is the classic "it's not a bug, it's a feature!" and doesn't quite roll with everyone's use-case. I have a work phone that I take with me when I am on-call or on a customer site. Slack (or whatever we decide to use) absolutely has to work here.
johannes1234321 10y ago
Other companies give access to the company-internal information to the cleaning company. Many exchange business critical information by using a phone company. When self-hosting you have to care about your service-level agreements and trouble solving. If you rely on it you quickly need a growing IT/operations team. sometimes it's cheaper to pay somebody how is specialized on this. Of course one has to evaluate the company, with the ones which make money from selling information (to advertisers) I'd be more critical, but that's a matter of evaluation of options.
briandear 10y ago
And how much time does it take to manage the required infrastructure?
- huhtenberg 10y ago
  Hard to say, few minutes per month, amortized?
nickpp 10y ago
Do they have Reactions already in Mattermost?
- huhtenberg 10y ago
  As in "emoji"? A critical feature that precludes effective professional communication in work environment?
  - briandear 10y ago
    When someone says "we need to refactor the Whatever class" Rather than 10 people writing "agree" one can react and others can click the reaction similar to an upvote. That cuts down considerably on the noise so yes, I'd say it enhances professional communication.
    - huhtenberg 10y ago
      Ah, OK. We have no need for this, so I assumed it was the emoji thing, like in other messengers.
briandear 10y ago
I might argue that Slack has no interest in anyone's inner workings. I've been at companies building relatively uninteresting products that treated Github like it was the same as emailing source code and server logins to the competition. I could be wrong, but I have never heard of a single instance of a company on Github having code stolen because it was on Github. I have heard of many companies who have had their internal systems hacked. I might trust Github more simply because their entire product and value proposition is built around the use case of storing code while some company that builds a restaurant app -- their primary business isn't building code storage infrastructure. So why add operational overhead because of unfounded paranoia? Unless you're running your own metal in your own data center, there's always 'risk.' Even then, if your system is connected to the internet there's still risk. Proper risk management isn't "paranoia all the time," but an evaluation of the degree of harm posed by a particular hazard along with the likelihood of that hazard occurring. Then mitigating that risk in a way that is commensurate with those variables.
- shanemhansen 10y ago
  GitHub delivered the wrong source code to people for a while. https://github.com/blog/2273-incident-report-inadvertent-private-repository-disclosure https://github.com/blog/2273-incident-report-inadvertent-pri... I'm not bashing GitHub, but some people find more value and less risk in using git in its "native" distributed mode.
  - taylorfausak 10y ago
    I think it's a little misleading to call that "a while". The post says "156 private repositories" were affected during a "ten-minute window" representing "0.0013% of the total operations at the time".
- eeZah7Ux 10y ago
  > Proper risk management isn't "paranoia all the time," but an evaluation of the degree of harm posed by a particular hazard along with the likelihood of that hazard occurring. Risk analysis: using online DVCS/bugtracker/chat service you are one compromised password away from letting an attacker read the whole contents and potentially alter them. Many of those passwords will be stored in browser. Browsers are known for being softer targets compared to servers, generally speaking. Contrast this with an on-premise services: You still have login credentials but also require people to badge-in to access the building and login on the desktops or start a VPN (often requiring creds and 2fa).

couac 10y ago

You're absolutely right! When we started, Mattermost did not exist (or was version 0.0.0.1). Now, just like GitLab, it is a very serious thing and we consider using it instead of relying on a 3rd party. Yet, we are a very small team and cannot dedicate too much time in maintaining/upgrading apps :\

unixhero 10y ago
Gitlab can be run "selfhosted" but still turnkey. Just look up Digitalocean or Bitnami.
jhoechtl 10y ago
You may find https://try.gogs.io/ https://try.gogs.io/ interesting, which is much less resource hungry, performs better and got only LFS support as of recent.

Roritharr 10y ago

We tried. Oh we tried. But the mobile apps being not native made the mobile usage drop like a rock compared to Slack, leading to the fact that it was harder to reach people than via the old Slack. When I saw that Rocket.Chat also used non-native clients leading to similar complaints, we just dropped the whole project and moved back to Slack.

bpicolo 10y ago
That's a blessing in disguise, can avoid taking work with you everywhere you go.
- samtho 10y ago
  I'm sure we all understand what you're trying to say here, but this is the classic "it's not a bug, it's a feature!" and doesn't quite roll with everyone's use-case. I have a work phone that I take with me when I am on-call or on a customer site. Slack (or whatever we decide to use) absolutely has to work here.

johannes1234321 10y ago

Other companies give access to the company-internal information to the cleaning company. Many exchange business critical information by using a phone company. When self-hosting you have to care about your service-level agreements and trouble solving. If you rely on it you quickly need a growing IT/operations team. sometimes it's cheaper to pay somebody how is specialized on this. Of course one has to evaluate the company, with the ones which make money from selling information (to advertisers) I'd be more critical, but that's a matter of evaluation of options.

briandear 10y ago

And how much time does it take to manage the required infrastructure?

huhtenberg 10y ago
Hard to say, few minutes per month, amortized?

nickpp 10y ago

Do they have Reactions already in Mattermost?

huhtenberg 10y ago
As in "emoji"? A critical feature that precludes effective professional communication in work environment?
- briandear 10y ago
  When someone says "we need to refactor the Whatever class" Rather than 10 people writing "agree" one can react and others can click the reaction similar to an upvote. That cuts down considerably on the noise so yes, I'd say it enhances professional communication.
  - huhtenberg 10y ago
    Ah, OK. We have no need for this, so I assumed it was the emoji thing, like in other messengers.

briandear 10y ago

I might argue that Slack has no interest in anyone's inner workings. I've been at companies building relatively uninteresting products that treated Github like it was the same as emailing source code and server logins to the competition. I could be wrong, but I have never heard of a single instance of a company on Github having code stolen because it was on Github. I have heard of many companies who have had their internal systems hacked. I might trust Github more simply because their entire product and value proposition is built around the use case of storing code while some company that builds a restaurant app -- their primary business isn't building code storage infrastructure. So why add operational overhead because of unfounded paranoia? Unless you're running your own metal in your own data center, there's always 'risk.' Even then, if your system is connected to the internet there's still risk. Proper risk management isn't "paranoia all the time," but an evaluation of the degree of harm posed by a particular hazard along with the likelihood of that hazard occurring. Then mitigating that risk in a way that is commensurate with those variables.

shanemhansen 10y ago
GitHub delivered the wrong source code to people for a while. https://github.com/blog/2273-incident-report-inadvertent-private-repository-disclosure https://github.com/blog/2273-incident-report-inadvertent-pri... I'm not bashing GitHub, but some people find more value and less risk in using git in its "native" distributed mode.
- taylorfausak 10y ago
  I think it's a little misleading to call that "a while". The post says "156 private repositories" were affected during a "ten-minute window" representing "0.0013% of the total operations at the time".
eeZah7Ux 10y ago
> Proper risk management isn't "paranoia all the time," but an evaluation of the degree of harm posed by a particular hazard along with the likelihood of that hazard occurring. Risk analysis: using online DVCS/bugtracker/chat service you are one compromised password away from letting an attacker read the whole contents and potentially alter them. Many of those passwords will be stored in browser. Browsers are known for being softer targets compared to servers, generally speaking. Contrast this with an on-premise services: You still have login credentials but also require people to badge-in to access the building and login on the desktops or start a VPN (often requiring creds and 2fa).