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When I was earning my CS degree, Ethics was a mandatory course. As it was for other engineering majors as well. Having been in the industry a while I think the

by throwaway2016a 10y ago

When I was earning my CS degree, Ethics was a mandatory course. As it was for other engineering majors as well. Having been in the industry a while I think the worst thing I have been asked to do was participate in a program that installed our software on the user's machine without their consent. The CEO argued they did give their consent, which was technically true... they could uncheck the "Install partner apps" checkbox before clicking next but it wasn't very obvious. Thing is, that practice is (was? I hope) common everywhere from Yahoo, AOL, etc... so it was one of those "Everyone is doing it" things. I pushed back pretty hard but ended up losing the battle. In hindsight I wish I had walked. Ethics aside, none of the customers who got our app this way gave us very good reviews and their lifetime value was way less than customers acquired other ways.

pmiller2 10y ago
> When I was earning my CS degree, Ethics was a mandatory course. As it was for other engineering majors as well. Many of us didn't major in engineering, as the article states. There are no ethics classes in Math (what I studied in school). > In hindsight I wish I had walked. I have not yet had to make this choice, but I am specifically making sure my financial situation is in order enough that I wouldn't be tempted to go along with something blatantly illegal or unethical. I'm not completely sure if, in the moment, with the ability to pay rent on the line, if I could refuse in a situation like you mentioned. Luckily, I've never been asked to do anything too questionable.
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  > Many of us didn't major in engineering, as the article states. There are no ethics classes in Math (what I studied in school). That is a good point. To expand on that, many software developers don't have formal training at all. I didn't mean to imply that my experience is typical or even common. I know CS programs at other schools that do _not_ require ethics or have it as an optional elective so it's certainly not universal even within CS.
hash-set 10y ago
They ought to teach a history class as well--how IBM helped Hitler kill off Jews and Gypsies. And how the NSA and CIA illegally surveil us (and everyone in the world), and how technology doesn't give a single shit if we all live or all die. Then maybe people wouldn't go to work making Hellfire missiles or the drones that they get attached to because you are an accessory to murder when you do that.
- throwaway2016a 10y ago
  We actually had a choice to take a class called "The History of Computing" but it was an elective and I didn't take it so I can't say if it covered these sort of historical issues.
mrweasel 10y ago
I had an ethics course as part of my CS degree as well. The thing is, it's not there to teach you how to deal with unethical or illegal business practises. It's main goal it to teach you how to behave in an academic setting. It different from country to country, but CS degrees are training you to be a scientist first and for most, even if most of us leave the universities and will never work as a scientist. The ethics courses are designed to teach us not to fudge our research data, how to behave towards our academic colleagues and how to properly give credit to the work of others. And the well meaning professors that teaches these courses have no experience dealing with unethical managers. In countries where unions are strong and work, I would let them help their members in these cases instead. In Denmark, unethical behaviour observed by a computer scientist working in the private sector is best left in the hands of the engineering union.

pmiller2 10y ago

> When I was earning my CS degree, Ethics was a mandatory course. As it was for other engineering majors as well. Many of us didn't major in engineering, as the article states. There are no ethics classes in Math (what I studied in school). > In hindsight I wish I had walked. I have not yet had to make this choice, but I am specifically making sure my financial situation is in order enough that I wouldn't be tempted to go along with something blatantly illegal or unethical. I'm not completely sure if, in the moment, with the ability to pay rent on the line, if I could refuse in a situation like you mentioned. Luckily, I've never been asked to do anything too questionable.

throwaway2016a 10y ago
> Many of us didn't major in engineering, as the article states. There are no ethics classes in Math (what I studied in school). That is a good point. To expand on that, many software developers don't have formal training at all. I didn't mean to imply that my experience is typical or even common. I know CS programs at other schools that do _not_ require ethics or have it as an optional elective so it's certainly not universal even within CS.

hash-set 10y ago

They ought to teach a history class as well--how IBM helped Hitler kill off Jews and Gypsies. And how the NSA and CIA illegally surveil us (and everyone in the world), and how technology doesn't give a single shit if we all live or all die. Then maybe people wouldn't go to work making Hellfire missiles or the drones that they get attached to because you are an accessory to murder when you do that.

throwaway2016a 10y ago
We actually had a choice to take a class called "The History of Computing" but it was an elective and I didn't take it so I can't say if it covered these sort of historical issues.

mrweasel 10y ago

I had an ethics course as part of my CS degree as well. The thing is, it's not there to teach you how to deal with unethical or illegal business practises. It's main goal it to teach you how to behave in an academic setting. It different from country to country, but CS degrees are training you to be a scientist first and for most, even if most of us leave the universities and will never work as a scientist. The ethics courses are designed to teach us not to fudge our research data, how to behave towards our academic colleagues and how to properly give credit to the work of others. And the well meaning professors that teaches these courses have no experience dealing with unethical managers. In countries where unions are strong and work, I would let them help their members in these cases instead. In Denmark, unethical behaviour observed by a computer scientist working in the private sector is best left in the hands of the engineering union.