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Chad and Brad are in a pretty shitty position right now as far as these things go. They have product owners breathing down their neck and are increasingly signe

Chad and Brad are in a pretty shitty position right now as far as these things go. They have product owners breathing down their neck and are increasingly signed in as the pair chad+brad@company.com in their open-office chain gang, unable to take even a moment's solitary contemplation about what they're working on. They were not hired to do anything other than check off stories on a task board, their “velocity” tracked by the system described in Piketty's “Capital in the Twenty-First Century”. If one of them were to get too invested in the ideas described here, he'd be chastized by the other, or by a manager, or the rest of his team collectively, and potentially replaced. This is at least part of what people mean when they lament that software engineering isn't treated as a profession in the manner of doctors or lawyers. Many of us may be very smart and able to weigh issues like these, but these things are not encouraged or rewarded or respected by most of the employers.

kelnos 10y ago
> If one of them were to get too invested in the ideas described here, he'd be chastized by the other, or by a manager, or the rest of his team collectively, and potentially replaced. But at least they'd then be in the clear, ethically speaking, and their employer will be on notice that this is not cool, even if they do eventually find someone willing to carry out their unethical deeds. If no one stands up for what's right, the managers will just be reinforced in their belief that they can do whatever they want. Most developers are in a much better position to stand up for this sort of thing than people in industries with less worker demand. If my company asked me to do something unethical, I could quit on the spot and have a new, better job in under a week. No, not all developers are on such good footing, but there are many, many categories of job where employment security is so low that quitting over an ethical quandary would be unthinkable.
andrei_says_ 10y ago
Sometimes all it takes is to point out the potential legal/moral issues in writing and request a clear order of execution, also in writing. When a paper trail eliminates the possibility for management to plead ignorance and shift blame later, management often happens to grow a conscience.
eric-hu 10y ago
> This is at least part of what people mean when they lament that software engineering isn't treated as a profession in the manner of doctors or lawyers. This is an apt analogy. You may have just driven that point home for me. Do you think that pharma and health insurance companies want doctors to think about what's ethical? Likewise, do law firms want their lawyers to think about whether an IP shakedown is ethical? My takeaway from this talk is that I'm a Chad. Greater forces in my industry may expect me to sling code and ship features, but my role in this whole mess is to stop and think. Or not.

kelnos 10y ago

> If one of them were to get too invested in the ideas described here, he'd be chastized by the other, or by a manager, or the rest of his team collectively, and potentially replaced. But at least they'd then be in the clear, ethically speaking, and their employer will be on notice that this is not cool, even if they do eventually find someone willing to carry out their unethical deeds. If no one stands up for what's right, the managers will just be reinforced in their belief that they can do whatever they want. Most developers are in a much better position to stand up for this sort of thing than people in industries with less worker demand. If my company asked me to do something unethical, I could quit on the spot and have a new, better job in under a week. No, not all developers are on such good footing, but there are many, many categories of job where employment security is so low that quitting over an ethical quandary would be unthinkable.

andrei_says_ 10y ago

Sometimes all it takes is to point out the potential legal/moral issues in writing and request a clear order of execution, also in writing. When a paper trail eliminates the possibility for management to plead ignorance and shift blame later, management often happens to grow a conscience.

eric-hu 10y ago

> This is at least part of what people mean when they lament that software engineering isn't treated as a profession in the manner of doctors or lawyers. This is an apt analogy. You may have just driven that point home for me. Do you think that pharma and health insurance companies want doctors to think about what's ethical? Likewise, do law firms want their lawyers to think about whether an IP shakedown is ethical? My takeaway from this talk is that I'm a Chad. Greater forces in my industry may expect me to sling code and ship features, but my role in this whole mess is to stop and think. Or not.