4 ms·

I think the answer Obama gave had some merit to it. If Obama pardoned people left and right, trump would start doing the same. If presidents started behaving ab

by nojvek 10y ago

I think the answer Obama gave had some merit to it. If Obama pardoned people left and right, trump would start doing the same. If presidents started behaving above the law it could get dirty very fast.

noobermin 10y ago
>trump would start doing the same He's going to anyway, why not flex your muscles before Trump undoes essentially Obama's entire "legacy?" To quote Trump, "what does [he] have to lose?"
- Someone 10y ago
  I'm not claiming to know enough to state whether it would apply to this case or how Obama thinks about it, but he may think he has both the moral high ground and the judgment of history to lose.
patall 10y ago
I am sorry but Obama does not mention any of that. He argues that intelligence is needed and that there is nothing you can do about it. Anyways, I wonder why he still keeps with the story that Mr. Snowden should have contacted his superiors first before going public. We all know what would have happened in that case (i.e nothing); why does he answer like we are stupid?
- xupybd 10y ago
  Yes but then he left to Russia and promptly gave them all the intelligence he'd collected. Most had nothing to do with what he'd whistle blew on. If you dump everything you can gather and give it to another nation you're going to have a hard time getting a pardon.
  - cyphar 10y ago
    [citation needed] Snowden never intended to go to Russia (it's the fault of the US that that happened). And as far as I know there's no proof that he revealed anything to the Russian government. In fact, he claims to no longer have the documents (he deleted them after giving them to journalists).
  - woodman 10y ago
    Source? By all accounts, at the time, he didn't have the data at that point. I hope you can do better than "He is a liar!", because given what he did and why he did it - the benefit of the doubt is deserved. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/world/snowden-says-he-took-no-secret-files-to-russia.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/world/snowden-says-he-took...
viridian 10y ago
Every president pardons a ton of people at the end of their term. Obama will do it, and it's likely Trump will too: http://www.infoplease.com/us/government/presidential-pardons-1789-present.html http://www.infoplease.com/us/government/presidential-pardons...
marssaxman 10y ago
This is precisely the sort of thing presidential pardons are for.
toyg 10y ago
Read up on previous pardons, in particular from GHBush and Reagan. If that sort of people can get pardoned, Snowden deserves it 10 times over.
- PhantomGremlin 10y ago
  Really? A casual two sentence slur on two Republican presidents? You neglected to mention Marc Rich, poster boy for a "bought and paid for pardon". His crimes: In 1983 Rich and partner Pincus Green were indicted on 65 criminal counts, including income tax evasion, wire fraud, racketeering, and trading with Iran during the oil embargo (at a time when Iranian revolutionaries were still holding American citizens hostage). Who pardoned him? None other than Democrat Bill Clinton. As Wikipedia summarizes it: On January 20, 2001, hours before leaving office, U.S. President Bill Clinton granted Rich a highly controversial presidential pardon. Several of Clinton's strongest supporters distanced themselves from the decision. Former President Jimmy Carter, a fellow Democrat, said, "I don't think there is any doubt that some of the factors in his pardon were attributable to his large gifts. In my opinion, that was disgraceful." Clinton himself later expressed regret for issuing the pardon, saying that "it wasn't worth the damage to my reputation." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich#U.S._indictment_and_pardon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich#U.S._indictment_and_...
  - toyg 10y ago
    Fair enough, I'd missed that. Still, makes the point even stronger: all sorts of crooks have been pardoned, and they were nowhere near Snowden from a moral or ethical point of view, so he deserves it much more than they ever did.

by nojvek 10y ago

noobermin 10y ago

>trump would start doing the same He's going to anyway, why not flex your muscles before Trump undoes essentially Obama's entire "legacy?" To quote Trump, "what does [he] have to lose?"

Someone 10y ago
I'm not claiming to know enough to state whether it would apply to this case or how Obama thinks about it, but he may think he has both the moral high ground and the judgment of history to lose.

patall 10y ago

I am sorry but Obama does not mention any of that. He argues that intelligence is needed and that there is nothing you can do about it. Anyways, I wonder why he still keeps with the story that Mr. Snowden should have contacted his superiors first before going public. We all know what would have happened in that case (i.e nothing); why does he answer like we are stupid?

xupybd 10y ago
Yes but then he left to Russia and promptly gave them all the intelligence he'd collected. Most had nothing to do with what he'd whistle blew on. If you dump everything you can gather and give it to another nation you're going to have a hard time getting a pardon.
- cyphar 10y ago
  [citation needed] Snowden never intended to go to Russia (it's the fault of the US that that happened). And as far as I know there's no proof that he revealed anything to the Russian government. In fact, he claims to no longer have the documents (he deleted them after giving them to journalists).
- woodman 10y ago
  Source? By all accounts, at the time, he didn't have the data at that point. I hope you can do better than "He is a liar!", because given what he did and why he did it - the benefit of the doubt is deserved. http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/world/snowden-says-he-took-no-secret-files-to-russia.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/18/world/snowden-says-he-took...

viridian 10y ago

Every president pardons a ton of people at the end of their term. Obama will do it, and it's likely Trump will too: http://www.infoplease.com/us/government/presidential-pardons-1789-present.html http://www.infoplease.com/us/government/presidential-pardons...

marssaxman 10y ago

This is precisely the sort of thing presidential pardons are for.

toyg 10y ago

Read up on previous pardons, in particular from GHBush and Reagan. If that sort of people can get pardoned, Snowden deserves it 10 times over.

PhantomGremlin 10y ago
Really? A casual two sentence slur on two Republican presidents? You neglected to mention Marc Rich, poster boy for a "bought and paid for pardon". His crimes: In 1983 Rich and partner Pincus Green were indicted on 65 criminal counts, including income tax evasion, wire fraud, racketeering, and trading with Iran during the oil embargo (at a time when Iranian revolutionaries were still holding American citizens hostage). Who pardoned him? None other than Democrat Bill Clinton. As Wikipedia summarizes it: On January 20, 2001, hours before leaving office, U.S. President Bill Clinton granted Rich a highly controversial presidential pardon. Several of Clinton's strongest supporters distanced themselves from the decision. Former President Jimmy Carter, a fellow Democrat, said, "I don't think there is any doubt that some of the factors in his pardon were attributable to his large gifts. In my opinion, that was disgraceful." Clinton himself later expressed regret for issuing the pardon, saying that "it wasn't worth the damage to my reputation." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich#U.S._indictment_and_pardon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marc_Rich#U.S._indictment_and_...
- toyg 10y ago
  Fair enough, I'd missed that. Still, makes the point even stronger: all sorts of crooks have been pardoned, and they were nowhere near Snowden from a moral or ethical point of view, so he deserves it much more than they ever did.