7 ms·

- GrubHub CEO saying that anyone who voted for Trump is not welcome.

ethanbond 10y ago
That's not really what he said. He said that a Trump victory makes some people fearful, and he wants a workplace that fosters the opposite of that, and that if you cannot foster an inclusive and diverse workplace that you are not welcome. I don't think what he did say was quite eloquent and it was clearly emotionally heated, but it didn't imply nor state that Trump voters are unwelcome.
- FreezerburnV 10y ago
  "... and these views, have no place at Grubhub. ... If you do not agree with this statement then please reply to this email with your resignation because you have no place here." Obviously only excerpts from the full email[0], but seems to contradict what you just said pretty heavily. If I was someone who voted for Trump that worked at Grubhub, I know that I would have been afraid for my job after that email. Possibly even still would be, and might even consider moving jobs in order to not be afraid of that. [0] The full original text of his email is at the bottom of this page: http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-details/2016/Inclusion-and-Tolerance-in-the-Workplace/default.aspx http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-...
  - ethanbond 10y ago
    Again, nothing in here is referring to a Trump vote or people who voted for Trump. It's referring to things like ridiculing or mocking minorities, immigrants, and disabled people. Which I think we can all agree are things that Trump did and have no place in a workplace like Grubhub, no?
    - FreezerburnV 10y ago
      People should not be mocked, agreed. But I think things get more complicated in the current environment where people who have voted for Trump have basically been labeled the same as him. It's apparently possible to have a "hateful attitude", or be racist, or whatever else, which can get you fired at GrubHub, by having voted for Trump. But honestly, regardless of arguing intent or whatever, I think the crux of the argument boils down to this: If you had voted for Trump and worked at GrubHub, would you be comfortable going to the CEO and saying "I voted for Trump" without fearing for your job, after that email? I would imagine the number of people at the company who don't/didn't feel that is non-zero (purely based on a vote, not based on if anyone there is actually racist), and I view that as completely inappropriate.
      - ethanbond 10y ago
        "It's apparently possible" as in you're the one drawing the connection the CEO didn't draw and then explicitly stated he didn't intend to draw: he did not say and did not mean to say that voting for Trump would get you fired. The CEO never said Trump voters aren't welcome. That was the original comment that I disagreed with. It's factually incorrect to say that's what the CEO said.
        mamon 10y ago
        If he said that directly he could be sued, so he used more subtle threats. Mentioning Trump's name twice in his email is not a coincidence - it wasn't necessary to make his point about racism or anti-immigrant sentiments, but it was necessary to make Trupm's voters get the message that they are not welcomed.
    - gedy 10y ago
      Well, it's more that it's a passive aggressive response to Trump winning, by timing, wording, etc.
  - Angostura 10y ago
    Oh, I love out of context quotes. Can I do one from the same e-email. "the new administration deserves our open minds and a chance to lead... never stop believing that the fight for what's right is worth it"
- eternalban 10y ago
  What he said: http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-details/2016/Inclusion-and-Tolerance-in-the-Workplace/default.aspx http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-... He very explicitly says that any employee that disagrees with his statement should resign and the "statement" included his political views. Will wearing a t-shirt with "I heart America" get you fired at GrubHub? It's on Matt's list of no-nos: nationalist.
  - grzm 10y ago
    "Will wearing a t-shirt with "I heart America" get you fired at GrubHub? It's on Matt's list of no-nos: nationalist." Nationalism and expressing love or pride in one's country (patriotism) are two different things, I think. They can be felt simultaneously but can also be expressed separately. Nationalism focusses more on cultural background, language, and heritage, which "I ︎<3 America" doesn't necessarily convey. I don't know how all of this will shake out at GrubHub. The most I've heard of the company has been around this incident. There's a lot of close and sometimes purposefully uncharitable parsing of language and cherry-picking going around in general.
    - eternalban 10y ago
      > Nationalism and expressing love or pride in one's country (patriotism) are two different things I would agree that they are distinct, but very much related. > Nationalism focusses more on cultural background, language, and heritage, which "I ︎<3 America" doesn't necessarily convey. Ok, then, how about this t-shirt of Mickey/Heart/Flag: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/155866837074483117/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/155866837074483117/
      - grzm 10y ago
        "I would agree that they are distinct, but very much related." Sure. If they weren't, you wouldn't have put forth the example you did. "how about this t-shirt of Mickey/Heart/Flag:" I don't understand what you're getting at (nor am I interested in defining the working attire policy of GrubHub). My point was that there can be a meaningful distinction between nationalism and wearing a "I <3 America" T-shirt, which it looked like you were equating. If you have a point, please make it.
- mzw_mzw 10y ago
  If you were a Trump voter who worked for GrubHub, would you feel comfortable strolling up to that CEO and casually mentioning who you voted for? Or would you consider yourself just a little bit chilled?
dpweb 10y ago
Appropriate to say that hateful comments are not welcome in the workplace. Not appropriate to bring politics into it with Trump. Employees should not be made to feel unwelcome because of their political affiliation. Quick example, as awful as sexual harrassment is - the code of conduct at your workplace - it doesn't say - Sexual harassment (like the kind Trump does) will not be tolerated. They manage to get a point across regardless.
- Angostura 10y ago
  Is it fair to say that Trump had made hateful comments? If so - in what way is it unfair to bring Trump up on the day after the election?
  - mzw_mzw 10y ago
    Maybe it's a super dumb idea to drag outside political issues into the workplace at all. Not everywhere has to be a battlefield.
veidr 10y ago
The ballot is secret for precisely that reason — it's not possible to judge people based on their vote. But making public your support for Trump — or the KKK, or NAMBLA, or Hacker News — is a completely different thing. You can and should be judged on the basis of the ideas and opinions that you promote.
- zepto 10y ago
  It would be nice if we could actually judge people accurately based on the ideas and opinions they promote, but that's rarely what happens. Usually people are judged based on the ideas that those who oppose them hold.
- base698 10y ago
  Speech and ideas of all colors need to flourish. That's how bad ideas get discussed and stamped out: think of natural selection. Right now we have a situation where groups are too afraid to discuss so these bad ideas fester in their own filter bubbles. On Liberty: Society can and does execute its own mandates: and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself.
  - Angostura 10y ago
    Bad ideas get stamped out by people pointing out they are bad ideas. If a CEO supports a spectacularly bad idea, it is not a problem if someone gives him the boot.
    - mzw_mzw 10y ago
      Even if the idea is completely unrelated to the company? And even then, we weren't talking about CEOs. We were talking about people like the low-level employees at GrubHub told that they should keep real quiet about their unapproved opinions if they wanted to keep their jobs.

That's not really what he said. He said that a Trump victory makes some people fearful, and he wants a workplace that fosters the opposite of that, and that if you cannot foster an inclusive and diverse workplace that you are not welcome. I don't think what he did say was quite eloquent and it was clearly emotionally heated, but it didn't imply nor state that Trump voters are unwelcome.

FreezerburnV 10y ago
"... and these views, have no place at Grubhub. ... If you do not agree with this statement then please reply to this email with your resignation because you have no place here." Obviously only excerpts from the full email[0], but seems to contradict what you just said pretty heavily. If I was someone who voted for Trump that worked at Grubhub, I know that I would have been afraid for my job after that email. Possibly even still would be, and might even consider moving jobs in order to not be afraid of that. [0] The full original text of his email is at the bottom of this page: http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-details/2016/Inclusion-and-Tolerance-in-the-Workplace/default.aspx http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-...
- ethanbond 10y ago
  Again, nothing in here is referring to a Trump vote or people who voted for Trump. It's referring to things like ridiculing or mocking minorities, immigrants, and disabled people. Which I think we can all agree are things that Trump did and have no place in a workplace like Grubhub, no?
  - FreezerburnV 10y ago
    People should not be mocked, agreed. But I think things get more complicated in the current environment where people who have voted for Trump have basically been labeled the same as him. It's apparently possible to have a "hateful attitude", or be racist, or whatever else, which can get you fired at GrubHub, by having voted for Trump. But honestly, regardless of arguing intent or whatever, I think the crux of the argument boils down to this: If you had voted for Trump and worked at GrubHub, would you be comfortable going to the CEO and saying "I voted for Trump" without fearing for your job, after that email? I would imagine the number of people at the company who don't/didn't feel that is non-zero (purely based on a vote, not based on if anyone there is actually racist), and I view that as completely inappropriate.
    - ethanbond 10y ago
      "It's apparently possible" as in you're the one drawing the connection the CEO didn't draw and then explicitly stated he didn't intend to draw: he did not say and did not mean to say that voting for Trump would get you fired. The CEO never said Trump voters aren't welcome. That was the original comment that I disagreed with. It's factually incorrect to say that's what the CEO said.
      - mamon 10y ago
        If he said that directly he could be sued, so he used more subtle threats. Mentioning Trump's name twice in his email is not a coincidence - it wasn't necessary to make his point about racism or anti-immigrant sentiments, but it was necessary to make Trupm's voters get the message that they are not welcomed.
  - gedy 10y ago
    Well, it's more that it's a passive aggressive response to Trump winning, by timing, wording, etc.
- Angostura 10y ago
  Oh, I love out of context quotes. Can I do one from the same e-email. "the new administration deserves our open minds and a chance to lead... never stop believing that the fight for what's right is worth it"
eternalban 10y ago
What he said: http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-details/2016/Inclusion-and-Tolerance-in-the-Workplace/default.aspx http://media.grubhub.com/media/press-releases/press-release-... He very explicitly says that any employee that disagrees with his statement should resign and the "statement" included his political views. Will wearing a t-shirt with "I heart America" get you fired at GrubHub? It's on Matt's list of no-nos: nationalist.
- grzm 10y ago
  "Will wearing a t-shirt with "I heart America" get you fired at GrubHub? It's on Matt's list of no-nos: nationalist." Nationalism and expressing love or pride in one's country (patriotism) are two different things, I think. They can be felt simultaneously but can also be expressed separately. Nationalism focusses more on cultural background, language, and heritage, which "I ︎<3 America" doesn't necessarily convey. I don't know how all of this will shake out at GrubHub. The most I've heard of the company has been around this incident. There's a lot of close and sometimes purposefully uncharitable parsing of language and cherry-picking going around in general.
  - eternalban 10y ago
    > Nationalism and expressing love or pride in one's country (patriotism) are two different things I would agree that they are distinct, but very much related. > Nationalism focusses more on cultural background, language, and heritage, which "I ︎<3 America" doesn't necessarily convey. Ok, then, how about this t-shirt of Mickey/Heart/Flag: https://www.pinterest.com/pin/155866837074483117/ https://www.pinterest.com/pin/155866837074483117/
    - grzm 10y ago
      "I would agree that they are distinct, but very much related." Sure. If they weren't, you wouldn't have put forth the example you did. "how about this t-shirt of Mickey/Heart/Flag:" I don't understand what you're getting at (nor am I interested in defining the working attire policy of GrubHub). My point was that there can be a meaningful distinction between nationalism and wearing a "I <3 America" T-shirt, which it looked like you were equating. If you have a point, please make it.
mzw_mzw 10y ago
If you were a Trump voter who worked for GrubHub, would you feel comfortable strolling up to that CEO and casually mentioning who you voted for? Or would you consider yourself just a little bit chilled?

dpweb 10y ago

Appropriate to say that hateful comments are not welcome in the workplace. Not appropriate to bring politics into it with Trump. Employees should not be made to feel unwelcome because of their political affiliation. Quick example, as awful as sexual harrassment is - the code of conduct at your workplace - it doesn't say - Sexual harassment (like the kind Trump does) will not be tolerated. They manage to get a point across regardless.

Angostura 10y ago
Is it fair to say that Trump had made hateful comments? If so - in what way is it unfair to bring Trump up on the day after the election?
- mzw_mzw 10y ago
  Maybe it's a super dumb idea to drag outside political issues into the workplace at all. Not everywhere has to be a battlefield.

veidr 10y ago

The ballot is secret for precisely that reason — it's not possible to judge people based on their vote. But making public your support for Trump — or the KKK, or NAMBLA, or Hacker News — is a completely different thing. You can and should be judged on the basis of the ideas and opinions that you promote.

zepto 10y ago
It would be nice if we could actually judge people accurately based on the ideas and opinions they promote, but that's rarely what happens. Usually people are judged based on the ideas that those who oppose them hold.
base698 10y ago
Speech and ideas of all colors need to flourish. That's how bad ideas get discussed and stamped out: think of natural selection. Right now we have a situation where groups are too afraid to discuss so these bad ideas fester in their own filter bubbles. On Liberty: Society can and does execute its own mandates: and if it issues wrong mandates instead of right, or any mandates at all in things with it ought not to meddle, it practices a social tyranny more formidable than many kinds of political oppression, since, though not usually upheld by such extreme penalties, it leaves fewer means of escape, penetrating much more deeply into the details of life, and enslaving the soul itself.
- Angostura 10y ago
  Bad ideas get stamped out by people pointing out they are bad ideas. If a CEO supports a spectacularly bad idea, it is not a problem if someone gives him the boot.
  - mzw_mzw 10y ago
    Even if the idea is completely unrelated to the company? And even then, we weren't talking about CEOs. We were talking about people like the low-level employees at GrubHub told that they should keep real quiet about their unapproved opinions if they wanted to keep their jobs.