4 ms·

So if your co-worker believes that, for example, black people and gays are subhuman and expresses that view you think that's ok and we should all just put up wi

So if your co-worker believes that, for example, black people and gays are subhuman and expresses that view you think that's ok and we should all just put up with it?

thro32 10y ago
Yes, it is free country. Big part of HN believe that black people, gays and even women are "subhuman" who need special help and special protection.
- ethanbond 10y ago
  Eh no. They think there's a long, well documented history of abuses against those people and acknowledge that those abuses didn't just fade away — stopping them has taken and will continue to take conscious directed effort against perpetrators of abuse. The crux of the problem is what it takes to become a "perpetrator of abuse," and we must all be cautious of expanding that group too aggressively.
- selectodude 10y ago
  It's a free country insofar as the government will not put him in jail or otherwise silence him for having those views. I don't need to put up with those views. He has freedom of speech, but he does not have freedom of venue.
- throwaway-hn123 10y ago
  Great, and as it's a free country, it's then perfectly ok to try to get this person fired for those views, right? Or is the freedom limited?
  - thro32 10y ago
    Do whatever you want, but that does not make you a "good guy", just a vindictive weasel.
JustSomeNobody 10y ago
Work isn't the appropriate venue to have those discussions. Sometimes ignoring junk behavior is the way to handle junk behavior. If said behavior persists and it's a distraction to the team, disciplinary action should be taken.
- humanrebar 10y ago
  I agree, but it's also true that many companies have official (as in HR required training) opinions on certain topics. In that case, there's already a "discussion", but a one-sided one. Maybe it's the right side, but it's not like we really enforce a hard line between philosophy/ethics/politics and work.
67726e 10y ago
Looks like you're going to troll with a throwaway account, but I'll bite. Does he express his views at work or somewhere else? If he's professional at work, I don't give a shit what he thinks.
- throwaway-hn123 10y ago
  It's just a thought experiment - not sure why you need to be talking about trolling. So, if this person is professional at work, then you come home, and watching the news, you see a report about a neo-nazi parade, and there this person is, literally on-screen, shouting "burn the niggers*. Is that also ok? Of course, this is an extreme example, I'm just interested in understanding where the line is, or indeed if there is one, in the minds of people who think it's ok to express any opinion without there being any consequence.
  - 67726e 10y ago
    I'm talking about trolling because you're using a throwaway account. That's a bright red-flag if I've ever seen one. That said, is he professional at work? If he does his job and doesn't discuss shit at work, that's his business. I'm not going to fire someone because of personal beliefs. Yes, that's an extreme example but I'm not going to play arbiter of beliefs because we are quickly going to get into a slippery slope of defining where a line is, who decides, etc. Hell, if half the folks on Facebook had it their way I might not have a job simply because I prefer Trump to Hillary. You see where I'm going with this?
    - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
      You're welcome to assume anything you want about the account and its nature, I simply don't care. If it's my personal belief that I am duty bound to try and get this person fired and find legal ways to ruin their life would you be supportive of that? None of this activity would be carried out at work.
      - 67726e 10y ago
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
2c2Apm1m5p70 10y ago
> and expresses that view In my opinion, it hinges upon the expression. If they are pleasant at work then one day you find their Facebook profile has a racial and homophobic slur, I don't think that's interfering with the work environment. If they say the same thing to you at work, then you can talk to HR. Unfortunately, by drawing the line here I'm allowing the possibility that you have to work with someone you don't like. Sorry about that. I think that's part of a larger problem, and I'm open to hear solutions for not-liking-someone-but-being-part-of-a-society. When a person is engaging in poor behaviour in the work context, you can use the mechanisms in place to correct that behaviour, but keep in mind that the goal is behaviour correction not crucifixion.
- throwaway-hn123 10y ago
  > If they are pleasant at work I don't think being pleasant has anything to do with this. Perhaps you meant professional? Assuming that, what if someone is professional at work, but often says at work that they believe black people should be lynched and are subhuman. Is that ok? If it isn't acceptable, why isn't it?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
cousin_it 10y ago
If you want to endorse firing people for their online views, next time don't use a throwaway.
- throwaway-hn123 10y ago
  I'll do what I want, thanks. I'll also bear the consequences and not whine like a baby.
  - 67726e 10y ago
    > I'll also bear the consequences and not whine like a baby. You are using a throwaway account. Clearly you are not willing to be beholden to your words online despite advocating for us to do us.
  - dang 10y ago
    Your comments have been breaking the HN guidelines. We ban accounts that do that repeatedly. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all, from now on.
dorfsmay 10y ago
If they don't talk about it at work, and don't treat whatever type of people they hate at work differently, then yes, you ignore.
sctb 10y ago
This type of setting-a-straw-man-ablaze comment is not good for Hacker News because invariably the rest of the thread catches fire. The bar for civility and substantiveness on sensitive topics is higher, not lower. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12998777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12998777 and marked it off-topic.

So if your co-worker believes that, for example, black people and gays are subhuman and expresses that view you think that's ok and we should all just put up with it?

thro32 10y ago

Yes, it is free country. Big part of HN believe that black people, gays and even women are "subhuman" who need special help and special protection.

ethanbond 10y ago
Eh no. They think there's a long, well documented history of abuses against those people and acknowledge that those abuses didn't just fade away — stopping them has taken and will continue to take conscious directed effort against perpetrators of abuse. The crux of the problem is what it takes to become a "perpetrator of abuse," and we must all be cautious of expanding that group too aggressively.
selectodude 10y ago
It's a free country insofar as the government will not put him in jail or otherwise silence him for having those views. I don't need to put up with those views. He has freedom of speech, but he does not have freedom of venue.
throwaway-hn123 10y ago
Great, and as it's a free country, it's then perfectly ok to try to get this person fired for those views, right? Or is the freedom limited?
- thro32 10y ago
  Do whatever you want, but that does not make you a "good guy", just a vindictive weasel.

JustSomeNobody 10y ago

Work isn't the appropriate venue to have those discussions. Sometimes ignoring junk behavior is the way to handle junk behavior. If said behavior persists and it's a distraction to the team, disciplinary action should be taken.

humanrebar 10y ago
I agree, but it's also true that many companies have official (as in HR required training) opinions on certain topics. In that case, there's already a "discussion", but a one-sided one. Maybe it's the right side, but it's not like we really enforce a hard line between philosophy/ethics/politics and work.

67726e 10y ago

Looks like you're going to troll with a throwaway account, but I'll bite. Does he express his views at work or somewhere else? If he's professional at work, I don't give a shit what he thinks.

throwaway-hn123 10y ago
It's just a thought experiment - not sure why you need to be talking about trolling. So, if this person is professional at work, then you come home, and watching the news, you see a report about a neo-nazi parade, and there this person is, literally on-screen, shouting "burn the niggers*. Is that also ok? Of course, this is an extreme example, I'm just interested in understanding where the line is, or indeed if there is one, in the minds of people who think it's ok to express any opinion without there being any consequence.
- 67726e 10y ago
  I'm talking about trolling because you're using a throwaway account. That's a bright red-flag if I've ever seen one. That said, is he professional at work? If he does his job and doesn't discuss shit at work, that's his business. I'm not going to fire someone because of personal beliefs. Yes, that's an extreme example but I'm not going to play arbiter of beliefs because we are quickly going to get into a slippery slope of defining where a line is, who decides, etc. Hell, if half the folks on Facebook had it their way I might not have a job simply because I prefer Trump to Hillary. You see where I'm going with this?
  - throwaway-hn123 10y ago
    You're welcome to assume anything you want about the account and its nature, I simply don't care. If it's my personal belief that I am duty bound to try and get this person fired and find legal ways to ruin their life would you be supportive of that? None of this activity would be carried out at work.
    - 67726e 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

2c2Apm1m5p70 10y ago

> and expresses that view In my opinion, it hinges upon the expression. If they are pleasant at work then one day you find their Facebook profile has a racial and homophobic slur, I don't think that's interfering with the work environment. If they say the same thing to you at work, then you can talk to HR. Unfortunately, by drawing the line here I'm allowing the possibility that you have to work with someone you don't like. Sorry about that. I think that's part of a larger problem, and I'm open to hear solutions for not-liking-someone-but-being-part-of-a-society. When a person is engaging in poor behaviour in the work context, you can use the mechanisms in place to correct that behaviour, but keep in mind that the goal is behaviour correction not crucifixion.

throwaway-hn123 10y ago
> If they are pleasant at work I don't think being pleasant has anything to do with this. Perhaps you meant professional? Assuming that, what if someone is professional at work, but often says at work that they believe black people should be lynched and are subhuman. Is that ok? If it isn't acceptable, why isn't it?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

cousin_it 10y ago

If you want to endorse firing people for their online views, next time don't use a throwaway.

throwaway-hn123 10y ago
I'll do what I want, thanks. I'll also bear the consequences and not whine like a baby.
- 67726e 10y ago
  > I'll also bear the consequences and not whine like a baby. You are using a throwaway account. Clearly you are not willing to be beholden to your words online despite advocating for us to do us.
- dang 10y ago
  Your comments have been breaking the HN guidelines. We ban accounts that do that repeatedly. Please post civilly and substantively, or not at all, from now on.

dorfsmay 10y ago

If they don't talk about it at work, and don't treat whatever type of people they hate at work differently, then yes, you ignore.

sctb 10y ago

This type of setting-a-straw-man-ablaze comment is not good for Hacker News because invariably the rest of the thread catches fire. The bar for civility and substantiveness on sensitive topics is higher, not lower. We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12998777 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12998777 and marked it off-topic.