5 ms·

I'm going to guess that a lot of HN does NOT think it is OK to fire people for their opinions - however if your core beliefs are out of line with a companies be

by jamroom 10y ago

I'm going to guess that a lot of HN does NOT think it is OK to fire people for their opinions - however if your core beliefs are out of line with a companies beliefs then it just might make you a bad FIT for the company. Not about your opinion, but about you fit with a group of people who's opinion and beliefs are opposite.

tdkl 10y ago
I bet most of the people aren't completely in line of "companies beliefs", the only difference is finding this out and broadcasting publicly with modern social media and its witch hunt influence.
- ethbro 10y ago
  I had a girlfriend at one point who used her mandatory volunteer time at her Christian company to make calls for Planned Parenthood. So proud she stuck to her beliefs despite pressure to do otherwise.
  - humanrebar 10y ago
    > mandatory volunteer time Why work at a Christian company if you find their beliefs oppressive? I say this as someone who thinks there is a thin line (a birth canal) between infanticide and a legal abortion. And there's always the option of working at common ground. Instead of picking a point of contention, serve at a food bank. Nobody objects to those.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      I expect you know the obvious answer, because it's the best available compromise. For example, the mandatory volunteer time may not have offended any principles and come with higher pay.
    - nommm-nommm 10y ago
      Because you need to eat?
thro32 10y ago
Most companies have no right to any sort of "core beliefs". We are doing business, not church or homeless shelter.
- humanrebar 10y ago
  Every company has core values. If not stated otherwise, the core value is profit and reputation for the owners and executives.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
EdSharkey 10y ago
Skipping past everything before the 'but', hehe ... > however if your core beliefs are out of line with a companies beliefs then it just might make you a bad FIT for the company. Not about your opinion, but about you fit with a group of people who's opinion and beliefs are opposite. So I can veil and justify my prejudice in a company mission statement? This is busybody-ism run amok. This is institutionalized busybody thinking. We really need some collective soul-searching because great people are being destroyed. How about this, let's stop ruining people for what's going on between their ears. Everyone's got stupid ideas and ugly and complicated thoughts. Get over yourselves, thought police! Employers: hire people for what they can do for you, pay them fairly, and let them live the rest of their dumb lives in peace. If employees are being assholes in the workplace, discipline and/or fire them. If employees are tarnishing your brand by doing things disagreeable to you A) publicly, **AND** B) in your brand's name Then, by all means, fire them and shame them while you're at it. Put out press releases on how ruthless the firing was! Of course, the larger problem is the rest of the culture. There are groups who will retaliate against individuals by naming them and trying to link them to the brand of their employer. It puts the employer in an impossible bind. Brendan Eich and Mozilla spring to mind as a particularly memorable example of this. It's a form of cultural terrorism, where one's private ideas can get them killed. The only solution, as distasteful as it sounds to many, is to not let the terrorists win. Mozilla should have kept Eich on, just to spite the SJW's and prevent them from souring civil discourse.
- gaur 10y ago
  > It's a form of cultural terrorism, where one's private ideas can get them killed. 49 people were massacred this year for going to a gay nightclub, but Eich was a victim of terrorism because he was fired? What are you smoking?
  - EdSharkey 10y ago
    Is there a better descriptor for what Eich was put through? I'd like to hear it. Brendan Eich contributed to the Prop 8[1] traditional marriage campaign that the California electorate voted on. It was a constitutional amendment and it passed which, in 2008, was simply stunning. In any case, Eich was shamed retroactively for his contribution. The hate and vitriol I read directed at the man at the time was incredible. If I were him, I would have been more in fear for my life and my family's, much less holding on to my CEO position. I don't know Brendan except hearing heard him speak a bit on youtube on technical topics, maybe he's a braver soul than I am IRL. In any case, "the use of violence or threats of violence in order to coerce, especially for political purposes" is the #1 definition of 'terrorism', which describes what happened with Eich pretty well. Fear is as powerful a weapon of terrorists as bullets or jet planes or pressure cookers are. Is this definition of terrorism and its implications well understood by you, and are you simply resistant to empathizing with someone with different politics than yours? That's all well and good until it's your ox that gets gored. Eich wasn't fired, at least not publicly. He stepped down because the cowards/traitors on the board let him dangle with no support. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008...
dorfsmay 10y ago
But then people extend the "core beliefs" of the company to whatever they want even if it has nothing to do with what the company does. As much as I disagreed with Brebdan Eich's political positions, I thought it was wrong that he was pushed out of Mozilla because of them. HN is not a single voice but my reading of it at the time was that, contrary to my position, most people thought it was the right thing to do.

by jamroom 10y ago

tdkl 10y ago

I bet most of the people aren't completely in line of "companies beliefs", the only difference is finding this out and broadcasting publicly with modern social media and its witch hunt influence.

ethbro 10y ago
I had a girlfriend at one point who used her mandatory volunteer time at her Christian company to make calls for Planned Parenthood. So proud she stuck to her beliefs despite pressure to do otherwise.
- humanrebar 10y ago
  > mandatory volunteer time Why work at a Christian company if you find their beliefs oppressive? I say this as someone who thinks there is a thin line (a birth canal) between infanticide and a legal abortion. And there's always the option of working at common ground. Instead of picking a point of contention, serve at a food bank. Nobody objects to those.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    I expect you know the obvious answer, because it's the best available compromise. For example, the mandatory volunteer time may not have offended any principles and come with higher pay.
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    Because you need to eat?

thro32 10y ago

Most companies have no right to any sort of "core beliefs". We are doing business, not church or homeless shelter.

humanrebar 10y ago
Every company has core values. If not stated otherwise, the core value is profit and reputation for the owners and executives.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

EdSharkey 10y ago

Skipping past everything before the 'but', hehe ... > however if your core beliefs are out of line with a companies beliefs then it just might make you a bad FIT for the company. Not about your opinion, but about you fit with a group of people who's opinion and beliefs are opposite. So I can veil and justify my prejudice in a company mission statement? This is busybody-ism run amok. This is institutionalized busybody thinking. We really need some collective soul-searching because great people are being destroyed. How about this, let's stop ruining people for what's going on between their ears. Everyone's got stupid ideas and ugly and complicated thoughts. Get over yourselves, thought police! Employers: hire people for what they can do for you, pay them fairly, and let them live the rest of their dumb lives in peace. If employees are being assholes in the workplace, discipline and/or fire them. If employees are tarnishing your brand by doing things disagreeable to you A) publicly, **AND** B) in your brand's name Then, by all means, fire them and shame them while you're at it. Put out press releases on how ruthless the firing was! Of course, the larger problem is the rest of the culture. There are groups who will retaliate against individuals by naming them and trying to link them to the brand of their employer. It puts the employer in an impossible bind. Brendan Eich and Mozilla spring to mind as a particularly memorable example of this. It's a form of cultural terrorism, where one's private ideas can get them killed. The only solution, as distasteful as it sounds to many, is to not let the terrorists win. Mozilla should have kept Eich on, just to spite the SJW's and prevent them from souring civil discourse.

gaur 10y ago
> It's a form of cultural terrorism, where one's private ideas can get them killed. 49 people were massacred this year for going to a gay nightclub, but Eich was a victim of terrorism because he was fired? What are you smoking?
- EdSharkey 10y ago
  Is there a better descriptor for what Eich was put through? I'd like to hear it. Brendan Eich contributed to the Prop 8[1] traditional marriage campaign that the California electorate voted on. It was a constitutional amendment and it passed which, in 2008, was simply stunning. In any case, Eich was shamed retroactively for his contribution. The hate and vitriol I read directed at the man at the time was incredible. If I were him, I would have been more in fear for my life and my family's, much less holding on to my CEO position. I don't know Brendan except hearing heard him speak a bit on youtube on technical topics, maybe he's a braver soul than I am IRL. In any case, "the use of violence or threats of violence in order to coerce, especially for political purposes" is the #1 definition of 'terrorism', which describes what happened with Eich pretty well. Fear is as powerful a weapon of terrorists as bullets or jet planes or pressure cookers are. Is this definition of terrorism and its implications well understood by you, and are you simply resistant to empathizing with someone with different politics than yours? That's all well and good until it's your ox that gets gored. Eich wasn't fired, at least not publicly. He stepped down because the cowards/traitors on the board let him dangle with no support. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Proposition_8_(2008...

dorfsmay 10y ago

But then people extend the "core beliefs" of the company to whatever they want even if it has nothing to do with what the company does. As much as I disagreed with Brebdan Eich's political positions, I thought it was wrong that he was pushed out of Mozilla because of them. HN is not a single voice but my reading of it at the time was that, contrary to my position, most people thought it was the right thing to do.