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> That said, the world could probably use a state of the art open access chip house that wasn't in Asia or controlled by the Chinese. Not sure that Intel could

> That said, the world could probably use a state of the art open access chip house that wasn't in Asia or controlled by the Chinese. Not sure that Intel could go there given their company history and organization. Why should a chip house not be in Asia? What are the issues with control by the Chinese [I assume you mean the Chinese government]?

ChuckMcM 10y ago
The primary issues are trade tariffs, loss of intellectual property, and national security. Trade tariffs for providing economic sanctions against countries you don't like, you could add $0.10 to every chip sold into the US as a tariff and pretty much instantly put the US into a recession. IP theft is always an issue, and it depends on a local jurisdiction government for enforcement, so if the local government is lax in their enforcement you will experience more IP theft. Hence the whole Gonkai aspect of things. National security because, as we've seen in research, inserting a capacitor in the chip that is not part of the circuit can create an undetectable back door in silicon[1] and that can compromise chips in sensitive systems. Again local governmental oversight is the lever to avoid such things but if you were in a state of cold war with the government in question? [1] https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hides-inside-computer-chip/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hi...
- witty_username 10y ago
  > Trade tariffs for providing economic sanctions against countries you don't like, you could add $0.10 to every chip sold into the US as a tariff and pretty much instantly put the US into a recession. But that would harm China too. For people not aligned with the US, what is the advantage of the US versus China with regards to backdoors? Especially after the Snowden leaks, it seems to be an issue of who is worse.
  - ChuckMcM 10y ago
    Of course, but who would it hurt worse? Rarely do nation-states engage in conflict and not also hurt themselves in the process, the idea is that it hurts the target a lot worse than it hurts at home. You might say that humans often start fights knowing they are going to get hurt but feeling like the fight is justified. China has economic controls that the US does not, which gives it the ability to dodge which the US doesn't have in an economic fight.
    - witty_username 10y ago
      But many chips are bought in the US, so China would be hurt quite significantly (you're saying the US would be put into a recession which means the US buys lots of chips).
      - ChuckMcM 10y ago
        What is your estimation of how many chips are sold in the US versus sold in China and manufactured into products there? Tell me your understanding of what percentage of products sold in the US and sold in China use chips manufactured in China vs in the US?

ChuckMcM 10y ago

The primary issues are trade tariffs, loss of intellectual property, and national security. Trade tariffs for providing economic sanctions against countries you don't like, you could add $0.10 to every chip sold into the US as a tariff and pretty much instantly put the US into a recession. IP theft is always an issue, and it depends on a local jurisdiction government for enforcement, so if the local government is lax in their enforcement you will experience more IP theft. Hence the whole Gonkai aspect of things. National security because, as we've seen in research, inserting a capacitor in the chip that is not part of the circuit can create an undetectable back door in silicon[1] and that can compromise chips in sensitive systems. Again local governmental oversight is the lever to avoid such things but if you were in a state of cold war with the government in question? [1] https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hides-inside-computer-chip/ https://www.wired.com/2016/06/demonically-clever-backdoor-hi...

witty_username 10y ago
> Trade tariffs for providing economic sanctions against countries you don't like, you could add $0.10 to every chip sold into the US as a tariff and pretty much instantly put the US into a recession. But that would harm China too. For people not aligned with the US, what is the advantage of the US versus China with regards to backdoors? Especially after the Snowden leaks, it seems to be an issue of who is worse.
- ChuckMcM 10y ago
  Of course, but who would it hurt worse? Rarely do nation-states engage in conflict and not also hurt themselves in the process, the idea is that it hurts the target a lot worse than it hurts at home. You might say that humans often start fights knowing they are going to get hurt but feeling like the fight is justified. China has economic controls that the US does not, which gives it the ability to dodge which the US doesn't have in an economic fight.
  - witty_username 10y ago
    But many chips are bought in the US, so China would be hurt quite significantly (you're saying the US would be put into a recession which means the US buys lots of chips).
    - ChuckMcM 10y ago
      What is your estimation of how many chips are sold in the US versus sold in China and manufactured into products there? Tell me your understanding of what percentage of products sold in the US and sold in China use chips manufactured in China vs in the US?