4 ms·

Alternatively, everyone wants to get paid. No one is going to put in the time and resources to support an app that can not be monetized. And if the advertisin

by brg 16y ago

Alternatively, everyone wants to get paid. No one is going to put in the time and resources to support an app that can not be monetized. And if the advertising model does not work on mobile phones (perhaps lack of screen real-estate, perhaps mobile has terrible cpm) then there is no alternative than the app store.

jasonlbaptiste 16y ago
This is a big problem. It will get fixed.
- moe 16y ago
  It's also a rather easy problem. Web billing systems have existed for ages, I don't see a reason why those shouldn't work on a phone.
  - jasonlbaptiste 16y ago
    It takes initiative and a great product specifically built for the problem. You can't just plug in a hard to use product (for the dev and end user). It needs to be as easy to buy the mobile web app as it is to buy the iphone app store app. ie- one click. have you ever tried to put CC info in on a mobile phone? its hell.
    - moe 16y ago
      This is a billion dollar market. Rest assured initiative will not be in short supply, once the first serious mobile webapps (read: proof of concept) pop up. Apple will do their best to hinder progress as long as they can but I doubt they can delay the inevitable for very long. The next gen of phones will likely already provide a near frictionless web performance. From there it's only a matter of being "allowed" to hook into phone APIs via javascript. Apple will naturally deny this while Android will embrace it aggressively. From that point onwards Apple has a serious problem on their hands, as far as the iPhone platform is concerned.
      - steveklabnik 16y ago
        Apple won't deny this from happening. Don't they already have a great set of tools available to make your web app work like a "real" one?
      - chc 16y ago
        The suggestion that "Apple will do their best to hinder progress" really needs support. So far, Apple has been pushing Web apps harder than anybody else out there. They initially presented Web apps as the preferred way to create iPhone software — it's the developers who balked at that and demanded an SDK. There's a special Web app mode built into MobileSafari. Heck, MobileSafari itself is at the forefront of Web technology, supporting a lot more sophisticated stuff than any of the other mobile browsers and more than a lot of desktop browsers until recently. On top of all that, Apple itself produces a very cool standards-based free Web application framework, SproutCore. How is that hindering progress?
  - chc 16y ago
    The problem isn't that they won't work in the strictest sense of the words — the trouble is that they are a much higher barrier to entry than the App Store model. I'll readily buy things from iTunes or Amazon because that's as simple as entering my password, but having to go through yet another billing system with all the hassles and signups and all that nonsense strongly discourages me from buying elsewhere. I would be willing to bet very good money that if you took a best-selling app from the App Store and created a Web app clone that charged the same price to be able to use it, you'd see less than a quarter of the sales of the app — probably drastically less.
    - keltex 16y ago
      The answer there is Amazon Payments (works just like going to amazon). I have to assume that Apple will come out with "Apple Payments" at some point as well.
      - chc 16y ago
        Amazon Payments is a step in the right direction, but even it is more complex. Here's the App Store flow: 1. Click "Buy" 2. Enter your password 3. Click "Buy" Here's the Amazon Payments flow: 1. Click "Pay' 2. Enter your username 3. Enter your password 4. Click "Sign In" 5. Choose a payment method 6. Click "Pay" Bear in mind that the burden of typing is much greater on a mobile (and especially touchscreen) device, so just having to enter both a username and password instead of just a username is far more annoying. There's also the fact that people are very unaccustomed to paying for access to Web sites (as opposed to buying things off of Web sites). Can you think of any paid site that's widely used by consumers? I can't. So you actually need to make it more painless than the App Store, because even if you have something extraordinarily compelling, you've already almost scared your customers off just by mentioning money.
        moe 16y ago
        Huh? There is no reason why the amazon workflow couldn't be made identical to the appstore flow. All it takes is a cookie. Sure, you will still have to go through the long route during your first purchase. But I really think you're blowing this problem out of proportion.

by brg 16y ago

jasonlbaptiste 16y ago

This is a big problem. It will get fixed.

moe 16y ago
It's also a rather easy problem. Web billing systems have existed for ages, I don't see a reason why those shouldn't work on a phone.
- jasonlbaptiste 16y ago
  It takes initiative and a great product specifically built for the problem. You can't just plug in a hard to use product (for the dev and end user). It needs to be as easy to buy the mobile web app as it is to buy the iphone app store app. ie- one click. have you ever tried to put CC info in on a mobile phone? its hell.
  - moe 16y ago
    This is a billion dollar market. Rest assured initiative will not be in short supply, once the first serious mobile webapps (read: proof of concept) pop up. Apple will do their best to hinder progress as long as they can but I doubt they can delay the inevitable for very long. The next gen of phones will likely already provide a near frictionless web performance. From there it's only a matter of being "allowed" to hook into phone APIs via javascript. Apple will naturally deny this while Android will embrace it aggressively. From that point onwards Apple has a serious problem on their hands, as far as the iPhone platform is concerned.
    - steveklabnik 16y ago
      Apple won't deny this from happening. Don't they already have a great set of tools available to make your web app work like a "real" one?
    - chc 16y ago
      The suggestion that "Apple will do their best to hinder progress" really needs support. So far, Apple has been pushing Web apps harder than anybody else out there. They initially presented Web apps as the preferred way to create iPhone software — it's the developers who balked at that and demanded an SDK. There's a special Web app mode built into MobileSafari. Heck, MobileSafari itself is at the forefront of Web technology, supporting a lot more sophisticated stuff than any of the other mobile browsers and more than a lot of desktop browsers until recently. On top of all that, Apple itself produces a very cool standards-based free Web application framework, SproutCore. How is that hindering progress?
- chc 16y ago
  The problem isn't that they won't work in the strictest sense of the words — the trouble is that they are a much higher barrier to entry than the App Store model. I'll readily buy things from iTunes or Amazon because that's as simple as entering my password, but having to go through yet another billing system with all the hassles and signups and all that nonsense strongly discourages me from buying elsewhere. I would be willing to bet very good money that if you took a best-selling app from the App Store and created a Web app clone that charged the same price to be able to use it, you'd see less than a quarter of the sales of the app — probably drastically less.
  - keltex 16y ago
    The answer there is Amazon Payments (works just like going to amazon). I have to assume that Apple will come out with "Apple Payments" at some point as well.
    - chc 16y ago
      Amazon Payments is a step in the right direction, but even it is more complex. Here's the App Store flow: 1. Click "Buy" 2. Enter your password 3. Click "Buy" Here's the Amazon Payments flow: 1. Click "Pay' 2. Enter your username 3. Enter your password 4. Click "Sign In" 5. Choose a payment method 6. Click "Pay" Bear in mind that the burden of typing is much greater on a mobile (and especially touchscreen) device, so just having to enter both a username and password instead of just a username is far more annoying. There's also the fact that people are very unaccustomed to paying for access to Web sites (as opposed to buying things off of Web sites). Can you think of any paid site that's widely used by consumers? I can't. So you actually need to make it more painless than the App Store, because even if you have something extraordinarily compelling, you've already almost scared your customers off just by mentioning money.
      - moe 16y ago
        Huh? There is no reason why the amazon workflow couldn't be made identical to the appstore flow. All it takes is a cookie. Sure, you will still have to go through the long route during your first purchase. But I really think you're blowing this problem out of proportion.