5 ms·

Medicine is one of those few fields the "socialized" approach is actually the better one. Of course you would prefer a I-don't-want-to-pay-for-others* stance wh

by kensai 10y ago

Medicine is one of those few fields the "socialized" approach is actually the better one. Of course you would prefer a I-don't-want-to-pay-for-others* stance when you are young and healthy (ie provided you were not born with a genetic condition or something similar), but once you start aging and caring, you start appreciating why Medicine as practiced in Europe makes much more sense in the end. *even Ayn Rand allegedly made use of the "social benefits" when the shit hit the fan and it's perfectly alright (https://www.quora.com/Did-Ayn-Rand-really-accept-Social-Security-and-Medicare-in-the-late-1970s https://www.quora.com/Did-Ayn-Rand-really-accept-Social-Secu...)

wav-part 10y ago
I-don't-want-to-pay-for-others != I will not insure my health. US health system needs competition more than socialism [1]. [1] https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault EDIT: A really good comment from link above. Mark S - https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault#comment-2857258347 https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault#co... The culprit in virtually all health care or drug price gouging outrages is insurance and "free" taxpayer money. Americans want someone else to pay for their health care -- the insurance pool, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, the hospital (if they are indigent). Drug makers know that someone else (not the patient) is paying for the drug, that payee has no economic incentive to minimize costs, and so drug makers do not care or have an economic incentive to control their costs or limit their prices. Somebody else is paying, so who care what the drug costs. Insurance companies pass costs along in the form of escalating premiums, so they have no incentive to control costs (especially in the Obamacare environment where health insurance providers are exiting the market leaving the remaining firms with a monopoly); giverment health programs have virtually unlimited access to taxpayer money (and, in the end, money printed by the Fed), so they have no incentive to control costs; health care providers also know that the patient is not paying the bill, so they have no incentive to prescribe or investigate more afforadable alternatives. People never ask "So, what does this drug/treatment cost?" but rather "Do you accept my insurance?"
- clarkevans 10y ago
  Competition in a socialized system exists, it is just at the individual practitioner level, rather than at the administrative level. So, could you explain why administrative (e.g. hospital, insurance, physician network) competition is needed in this field? Historically, it's been more expensive this way, not less.
  - mamon 10y ago
    Normal, free market competition does not apply to healthcare because, unlike any other market segment, transactions between patient and doctor are never fully free (voluntary). If you go to a mall to buy a TV and see two different models offered by two producers you have THREE choices: buy TV A, buy TV B, or buy none, if both are too expensive.. When you are sick and need to see a doctor the third option is not viable - you need to be treated otherwise your condition will get worse and you might even die. That's why free market in healthcare causes high price inflation: you are not buying a product, you are buying your own life and well being.
- realusername 10y ago
  Competition is not the issue, it's private healthcare itself. There is not a single country I know of where private healthcare works.
  - m_mueller 10y ago
    See my sister comment, see Switzerland.
  - geomark 10y ago
    I live in Thailand. Private healthcare is excellent here. In fact, hundreds of thousands of people from around the world come here every year to take advantage of it - Thailand is a huge medical tourism destination. There is also a public healcare system here which is quite terrible. Interestingly, some public hospitals offer "special clinic" hours where you can get treatment on a cash basis instead of using the public healthcare system. Since the "special clinics" are not so heavily oversubscribed the wait times are shorter and service is better. Not luxurious like the private hospitals (which are indeed luxurious) but solid care by excellent doctors. I had foot surgery at Siriraj Hospital (oldest and largest public hospital [0]) by an excellent specialist [1] who also practicies at Bumrungrad (pricey private hospital). Total cost of everything, including two nights in hospital, was USD700. I guess that's a sort of hybrid of public and private and is an excellent value. But the private healthcare is outstanding and (again) luxurious, and while more expensive still only a fraction of western pricing. The thing is, the prices are known and even advertised in advance and you can just pay out of pocket. Wife had surgery at Bumrungrad to remove an ovarian cyst, three nights in hospital with pampered treatment, total cost a little over USD2,000. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siriraj_Hospital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siriraj_Hospital [1] https://www.bumrungrad.com/doctors/Bavornrit-Chuckpaiwong https://www.bumrungrad.com/doctors/Bavornrit-Chuckpaiwong
Gravityloss 10y ago
Isn't insurance already paying for others, if nothing happens to you?

by kensai 10y ago

wav-part 10y ago

I-don't-want-to-pay-for-others != I will not insure my health. US health system needs competition more than socialism [1]. [1] https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault EDIT: A really good comment from link above. Mark S - https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault#comment-2857258347 https://mises.org/blog/lack-epipen-competitors-fdas-fault#co... The culprit in virtually all health care or drug price gouging outrages is insurance and "free" taxpayer money. Americans want someone else to pay for their health care -- the insurance pool, Medicare, Medicaid, the VA, the hospital (if they are indigent). Drug makers know that someone else (not the patient) is paying for the drug, that payee has no economic incentive to minimize costs, and so drug makers do not care or have an economic incentive to control their costs or limit their prices. Somebody else is paying, so who care what the drug costs. Insurance companies pass costs along in the form of escalating premiums, so they have no incentive to control costs (especially in the Obamacare environment where health insurance providers are exiting the market leaving the remaining firms with a monopoly); giverment health programs have virtually unlimited access to taxpayer money (and, in the end, money printed by the Fed), so they have no incentive to control costs; health care providers also know that the patient is not paying the bill, so they have no incentive to prescribe or investigate more afforadable alternatives. People never ask "So, what does this drug/treatment cost?" but rather "Do you accept my insurance?"

clarkevans 10y ago
Competition in a socialized system exists, it is just at the individual practitioner level, rather than at the administrative level. So, could you explain why administrative (e.g. hospital, insurance, physician network) competition is needed in this field? Historically, it's been more expensive this way, not less.
- mamon 10y ago
  Normal, free market competition does not apply to healthcare because, unlike any other market segment, transactions between patient and doctor are never fully free (voluntary). If you go to a mall to buy a TV and see two different models offered by two producers you have THREE choices: buy TV A, buy TV B, or buy none, if both are too expensive.. When you are sick and need to see a doctor the third option is not viable - you need to be treated otherwise your condition will get worse and you might even die. That's why free market in healthcare causes high price inflation: you are not buying a product, you are buying your own life and well being.
realusername 10y ago
Competition is not the issue, it's private healthcare itself. There is not a single country I know of where private healthcare works.
- m_mueller 10y ago
  See my sister comment, see Switzerland.
- geomark 10y ago
  I live in Thailand. Private healthcare is excellent here. In fact, hundreds of thousands of people from around the world come here every year to take advantage of it - Thailand is a huge medical tourism destination. There is also a public healcare system here which is quite terrible. Interestingly, some public hospitals offer "special clinic" hours where you can get treatment on a cash basis instead of using the public healthcare system. Since the "special clinics" are not so heavily oversubscribed the wait times are shorter and service is better. Not luxurious like the private hospitals (which are indeed luxurious) but solid care by excellent doctors. I had foot surgery at Siriraj Hospital (oldest and largest public hospital [0]) by an excellent specialist [1] who also practicies at Bumrungrad (pricey private hospital). Total cost of everything, including two nights in hospital, was USD700. I guess that's a sort of hybrid of public and private and is an excellent value. But the private healthcare is outstanding and (again) luxurious, and while more expensive still only a fraction of western pricing. The thing is, the prices are known and even advertised in advance and you can just pay out of pocket. Wife had surgery at Bumrungrad to remove an ovarian cyst, three nights in hospital with pampered treatment, total cost a little over USD2,000. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siriraj_Hospital https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siriraj_Hospital [1] https://www.bumrungrad.com/doctors/Bavornrit-Chuckpaiwong https://www.bumrungrad.com/doctors/Bavornrit-Chuckpaiwong

Gravityloss 10y ago

Isn't insurance already paying for others, if nothing happens to you?