4 ms·

This exactly. As a developer applications like docker and vagrant are part of my normal activities. The 16GB limit just does not work in this model. FWIW I was

This exactly. As a developer applications like docker and vagrant are part of my normal activities. The 16GB limit just does not work in this model. FWIW I was waiting on a laptop upgrade, and after seeing the new lineup from Apple I ordered a Linux laptop with 32GB of memory.

bardworx 10y ago
I have the new MbP w/ 8GB RAM and ram 3 VMs (2 MS build for IE testing and 1 hetoku build-pack) + IDE consuming close to 1GB of ram and compared it to a mid-2014 MbP with 16GB ram with similar performance. Yes the 8GB was a touch slower but I assume with 16GB, it will outperform similar or upgraded systems.
corv 10y ago
A major point of containerization is more efficient resource utilization, memory in particular. How has it come to this?
- pritambaral 10y ago
  > A major point of containerization is more efficient resource utilization It's actually "more efficient resource utilization per instance". Perhaps, with increased capability comes increased utilization. While before one would run only one or two VMs and try to run all their apps within that, now one can run many containers. ---- That, and shareable memory across host and guests. But I guess that works only if the host and guest run the same kernel. Docker and vagrant on OS X still have to dedicate some RAM to the Linux VM running as docker host, and I don't know how efficient other facets of docker on OS X are; but on Linux, I find containerization's memory usage almost at par with running the apps directly on the host.
  - debinguy 10y ago
    For my situation I work for a large CDN and we have over 15k servers deployed globally and software I write has to run on all of them. This means various OS and kernel versions. This means in a given day I can work on 20+ different containers. The more time I spend spinning up or down containers to save system resources the more angry I get. I also travel a lot for work, so connecting to a cloud based instance from a plane is not possible, plugging into a power outlet in a plane seat is. For me the issue comes down to lack of choice. Previously lack of choice from Apple was not a concern because the choices I would make were inline with what they are offering. This is no longer the case. For those that asked, I am replacing 10 years of using MBP's with a System76 laptop. I don't have it yet so I can't comment but I am excited for the change as have been growing more and more frustrated with Apple.
    - corv 10y ago
      The System76 Oryx Pro looks very interesting.
    - pritambaral 10y ago
      Aside, but you say "various OS and kernel versions". One'd have to use virtualization in order to run a kernel different than the host. I don't think containerization can help you there, at least as far as spinning up an image with a different kernel is concerned.
- SoreGums 10y ago
  To run the whole system need multiple VMs. It's not enough to just run the app container anymore. There are a bunch of support containers and if you want to experiment with failure then there are even more VMs & containers to run. sure we could just dump $1,000 into a cloud provider for a couple months usage, for me I'd rather put that $1,000 into my laptop (i7 3.8GHz, 64GB RAM, 2x SSD, 1x2TB HDD) and be able to experiment at my leisure. Plus it's quicker to iterate if the experiment is running all the time, cloud is expensive to run stuff that doesn't generate income.
  - corv 10y ago
    You could get a dedicated Xeon with 16GB ECC for $36 a month, that's less than $1000 for two years. You would also be able to forego the VMs since you can run your containers on the metal.
  - tonyarkles 10y ago
    What on earth laptop do you have with all that for $1000? Or maybe you mean $1000 in upgrades, but still... what laptop will take 64GB of ram and 4 disks?!
    - scholia 10y ago
      A ThinkPad P-series workstation takes four disk drives: two SSDs, one HD, and one DVD. It has four RAM slots so you can have 64GB. Low-end CPU is an Intel Core i7-6820HQ but you can upgrade to a Xeon. It's a highly configurable, professional machine. http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/ http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/ The Dell Precision M6800 (no longer available) supported a 4 drive configuration if one was a Mini Card plugged into a slot on the motherboard, It had three 2.5in drive bays. You could have a look at the current Dell models, or an HP Z Book.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - thinkmassive 10y ago
    This is exactly what should be expected from the Pro model. Not to mention that cloud requires connectivity, and the purpose of a laptop is mobility. I would prefer to be able to work entirely offline, and even when I have an internet connection it may not meet the bandwidth and/or latency requirements to make efficient progress with cloud servers.
- debinguy 10y ago
  They may be more efficient but when you need to run a dozen different containers simultaneously and you want each one to use a modest amount of memory, 16GB falls short. The issue is not efficient vs. non-efficient. It is scale. If I was writing a single web app on two containers sure 16GB would be fine. I am not though, and the scope of what I work on requires more memory.
tunesmith 10y ago
I'm hoping I come across more real-world explorations of using the new MBP with multiple dockers/vms and showing exactly when/how it falls down. I feel like I'm tired of being on a machine with a centralized system anyway. I want something basic with OSX images - an OS X just for work, and OS X just for finances, and OS X just for music work, etc. As it is I have multiple user accounts for different clients - I get some isolation that way but things still get in the way in a few ways. Strange IntelliJ bugs, occasional homebrew permission conflicts, etc. When I find myself considering buying multiple laptops to be free of all that, it's reached a ridiculous point.
- woah 10y ago
  I used 2 vms with 4gb a piece on a MacBook 12" with 8gb of ram and the system came to a complete halt. It worked, but very slowly. The most amusing part is that the haptic touchpad was affected as well, leading to a 10 second delay between pressing and feeling a click.
nicky0 10y ago
If 16GB "does not work", how have you been getting by all this time?
- thinkmassive 10y ago
  > The 16GB limit just does not work in this model Most likely he's been getting by with workarounds (not running everything simultaneously) and expected the new model to be more capable.

bardworx 10y ago

I have the new MbP w/ 8GB RAM and ram 3 VMs (2 MS build for IE testing and 1 hetoku build-pack) + IDE consuming close to 1GB of ram and compared it to a mid-2014 MbP with 16GB ram with similar performance. Yes the 8GB was a touch slower but I assume with 16GB, it will outperform similar or upgraded systems.

corv 10y ago

A major point of containerization is more efficient resource utilization, memory in particular. How has it come to this?

pritambaral 10y ago
> A major point of containerization is more efficient resource utilization It's actually "more efficient resource utilization per instance". Perhaps, with increased capability comes increased utilization. While before one would run only one or two VMs and try to run all their apps within that, now one can run many containers. ---- That, and shareable memory across host and guests. But I guess that works only if the host and guest run the same kernel. Docker and vagrant on OS X still have to dedicate some RAM to the Linux VM running as docker host, and I don't know how efficient other facets of docker on OS X are; but on Linux, I find containerization's memory usage almost at par with running the apps directly on the host.
- debinguy 10y ago
  For my situation I work for a large CDN and we have over 15k servers deployed globally and software I write has to run on all of them. This means various OS and kernel versions. This means in a given day I can work on 20+ different containers. The more time I spend spinning up or down containers to save system resources the more angry I get. I also travel a lot for work, so connecting to a cloud based instance from a plane is not possible, plugging into a power outlet in a plane seat is. For me the issue comes down to lack of choice. Previously lack of choice from Apple was not a concern because the choices I would make were inline with what they are offering. This is no longer the case. For those that asked, I am replacing 10 years of using MBP's with a System76 laptop. I don't have it yet so I can't comment but I am excited for the change as have been growing more and more frustrated with Apple.
  - corv 10y ago
    The System76 Oryx Pro looks very interesting.
  - pritambaral 10y ago
    Aside, but you say "various OS and kernel versions". One'd have to use virtualization in order to run a kernel different than the host. I don't think containerization can help you there, at least as far as spinning up an image with a different kernel is concerned.
SoreGums 10y ago
To run the whole system need multiple VMs. It's not enough to just run the app container anymore. There are a bunch of support containers and if you want to experiment with failure then there are even more VMs & containers to run. sure we could just dump $1,000 into a cloud provider for a couple months usage, for me I'd rather put that $1,000 into my laptop (i7 3.8GHz, 64GB RAM, 2x SSD, 1x2TB HDD) and be able to experiment at my leisure. Plus it's quicker to iterate if the experiment is running all the time, cloud is expensive to run stuff that doesn't generate income.
- corv 10y ago
  You could get a dedicated Xeon with 16GB ECC for $36 a month, that's less than $1000 for two years. You would also be able to forego the VMs since you can run your containers on the metal.
- tonyarkles 10y ago
  What on earth laptop do you have with all that for $1000? Or maybe you mean $1000 in upgrades, but still... what laptop will take 64GB of ram and 4 disks?!
  - scholia 10y ago
    A ThinkPad P-series workstation takes four disk drives: two SSDs, one HD, and one DVD. It has four RAM slots so you can have 64GB. Low-end CPU is an Intel Core i7-6820HQ but you can upgrade to a Xeon. It's a highly configurable, professional machine. http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/ http://shop.lenovo.com/gb/en/laptops/thinkpad/p-series/p70/ The Dell Precision M6800 (no longer available) supported a 4 drive configuration if one was a Mini Card plugged into a slot on the motherboard, It had three 2.5in drive bays. You could have a look at the current Dell models, or an HP Z Book.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- thinkmassive 10y ago
  This is exactly what should be expected from the Pro model. Not to mention that cloud requires connectivity, and the purpose of a laptop is mobility. I would prefer to be able to work entirely offline, and even when I have an internet connection it may not meet the bandwidth and/or latency requirements to make efficient progress with cloud servers.
debinguy 10y ago
They may be more efficient but when you need to run a dozen different containers simultaneously and you want each one to use a modest amount of memory, 16GB falls short. The issue is not efficient vs. non-efficient. It is scale. If I was writing a single web app on two containers sure 16GB would be fine. I am not though, and the scope of what I work on requires more memory.

tunesmith 10y ago

I'm hoping I come across more real-world explorations of using the new MBP with multiple dockers/vms and showing exactly when/how it falls down. I feel like I'm tired of being on a machine with a centralized system anyway. I want something basic with OSX images - an OS X just for work, and OS X just for finances, and OS X just for music work, etc. As it is I have multiple user accounts for different clients - I get some isolation that way but things still get in the way in a few ways. Strange IntelliJ bugs, occasional homebrew permission conflicts, etc. When I find myself considering buying multiple laptops to be free of all that, it's reached a ridiculous point.

woah 10y ago
I used 2 vms with 4gb a piece on a MacBook 12" with 8gb of ram and the system came to a complete halt. It worked, but very slowly. The most amusing part is that the haptic touchpad was affected as well, leading to a 10 second delay between pressing and feeling a click.

nicky0 10y ago

If 16GB "does not work", how have you been getting by all this time?

thinkmassive 10y ago
> The 16GB limit just does not work in this model Most likely he's been getting by with workarounds (not running everything simultaneously) and expected the new model to be more capable.