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This gets brought up every other thread on the subject of 'registries' for minority groups, but if you haven't you really should read IBM And The Holocaust: Th

This gets brought up every other thread on the subject of 'registries' for minority groups, but if you haven't you really should read IBM And The Holocaust: The upshot is that Germany used their census data to figure out who is and isn't a Jew, but they also used records from synagogues, surname analysis, and other pre-war 'big data' sources along with incredible amounts of IBM equipment to compile their list of undesirables. https://www.amazon.com/IBM-Holocaust-Strategic-Alliance-Corporation-Expanded/dp/0914153277 https://www.amazon.com/IBM-Holocaust-Strategic-Alliance-Corp... With the NSA, Donald Trump will have access to more information about the demographics of American populations and who comprises them than the Third Reich ever had about its own citizens. There will be no registries. And in the throes of a national security hysteria comparable to the fears of influence from anarchism in the early 20th century, there will be no internal will at these agencies to oppose him.

proksoup 10y ago
"IBM CEO Personally Offers Company’s Services to Donald Trump" [1] https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/ibm-ceo-personally-offers-companys-services-to-donald-trump/ https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/ibm-ceo-personally-offer... [2] https://twitter.com/yogthos/status/799060608561872896 https://twitter.com/yogthos/status/799060608561872896
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
464192002d7fe1c 10y ago
An interesting book, for sure. The thing of it was, while they made some very interesting connections they didn't particularly make one that IBM (America) directly knew about the literal holocaust. Now, IBM definitely knew their technology was being used to catalogue specific groups, and thus that that technology was being used to facilitate mass involuntary migrations of those people. What I don't recall (I read this book when it first came out in 2001), is if they knew (or should have reasonably known) that those people were being killed. When I think of the Holocaust, I associate that more with the deaths of those people and less with the forced migrations/etc. Both are terrible, of course, but one is obviously far worse. In any event, that's a very good book to read, even if ultimately I find culpability for IBM to be somewhat tenuous. I'm glad I don't live in a country/world where anyone is proposing registering anyone, Muslim or Jewish.
- celticninja 10y ago
  whilst one is considerably worse than the other, both were morally repugnant and the 'lesser' offence would now be illegal due to discrimination laws (if they were not illegal then for other/similar reasons). So IBM should have had some awareness of what was happening. In much the same way that we consider Hacking Team selling hacking services to the Syrian government as essentilly being involved with the dissappearance or torture of political activists so we should hold IBM to account for their involvement.
- mikeyouse 10y ago
  New documents came out after the book was published that showed that IBM had specific punch cards for each concentration camp, each reason (homosexual, Jew, antisocial, gypsy,etc.) and for manner of death (natural causes, suicide, death by gas chamber). The SS had to be trained, the machines had to be maintained, and the cards had to be updated. IBM engineers were on site at each concentration camp throughout most of the war.
  - apta 10y ago
    > New documents came out after the book was published... and for manner of death (natural causes, suicide, death by gas chamber). Do you have a citation for that?
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - mikeyouse 10y ago
      The author of the 2001 book that OP was referring to wrote a new edition in 2012ish with the new docs. He wrote about it in HuffPo: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/ibm-holocaust_b_1301691.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/ibm-holocaust_b_13...
aikah 10y ago
> With the NSA, Donald Trump will have access to more information about the demographics of American populations and who comprises them than the Third Reich ever had about its own citizens. Because the NSA was in good hands during Obama right ? No Trump isn't Hitler and the USA aren't going to turn into the Third Reich, it will be no better or worse that the current situation under Obama. The US president doesn't have total power over this country. Stop the insane fear mongering.
- legodt 10y ago
  No, but this new president is appointing a series of people with white nationalist leanings to a variety of posts within the government that do hold a lot of power. It is perfectly reasonable to be in fear right now. Action is always better, but it takes time to reel from and better understand this new threat to minorities and marginalized groups in the US
  - aikah 10y ago
    > with white nationalist leanings Ah the "white nationalist" narrative. I forgot about that one. There no "white nationalist" appointee. But I guess everybody who isn't a progressive is a "white nationalist" now.
    - hackuser 10y ago
      > There no "white nationalist" appointee In fact there are, including Steve Bannon. There also are religiously prejudiced appointees, such as Michael Flynn and Jeff Sessions. IIRC, that's 3 of the 4 appointees announced so far.
      - woofyman 10y ago
        Sessions is a drug warrior and against sentencing reform. He also voted against the don't tell don't ask repeal act of 2010.
        10y ago
hackuser 10y ago
It came out recently that the US Census Dept helped the government identify Americans of Japanese decent for internment.
akytt 10y ago
Exactly. Which means the resistance to building a functional population registry does not prevent any wrongdoing but stops the society from getting any of the gains. Like having a meaningful way to prevent non-citizens from voting, avoid identity theft etc.

proksoup 10y ago

"IBM CEO Personally Offers Company’s Services to Donald Trump" [1] https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/ibm-ceo-personally-offers-companys-services-to-donald-trump/ https://theintercept.com/2016/11/16/ibm-ceo-personally-offer... [2] https://twitter.com/yogthos/status/799060608561872896 https://twitter.com/yogthos/status/799060608561872896

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

464192002d7fe1c 10y ago

An interesting book, for sure. The thing of it was, while they made some very interesting connections they didn't particularly make one that IBM (America) directly knew about the literal holocaust. Now, IBM definitely knew their technology was being used to catalogue specific groups, and thus that that technology was being used to facilitate mass involuntary migrations of those people. What I don't recall (I read this book when it first came out in 2001), is if they knew (or should have reasonably known) that those people were being killed. When I think of the Holocaust, I associate that more with the deaths of those people and less with the forced migrations/etc. Both are terrible, of course, but one is obviously far worse. In any event, that's a very good book to read, even if ultimately I find culpability for IBM to be somewhat tenuous. I'm glad I don't live in a country/world where anyone is proposing registering anyone, Muslim or Jewish.

celticninja 10y ago
whilst one is considerably worse than the other, both were morally repugnant and the 'lesser' offence would now be illegal due to discrimination laws (if they were not illegal then for other/similar reasons). So IBM should have had some awareness of what was happening. In much the same way that we consider Hacking Team selling hacking services to the Syrian government as essentilly being involved with the dissappearance or torture of political activists so we should hold IBM to account for their involvement.
mikeyouse 10y ago
New documents came out after the book was published that showed that IBM had specific punch cards for each concentration camp, each reason (homosexual, Jew, antisocial, gypsy,etc.) and for manner of death (natural causes, suicide, death by gas chamber). The SS had to be trained, the machines had to be maintained, and the cards had to be updated. IBM engineers were on site at each concentration camp throughout most of the war.
- apta 10y ago
  > New documents came out after the book was published... and for manner of death (natural causes, suicide, death by gas chamber). Do you have a citation for that?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - mikeyouse 10y ago
    The author of the 2001 book that OP was referring to wrote a new edition in 2012ish with the new docs. He wrote about it in HuffPo: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/ibm-holocaust_b_1301691.html http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/ibm-holocaust_b_13...

aikah 10y ago

> With the NSA, Donald Trump will have access to more information about the demographics of American populations and who comprises them than the Third Reich ever had about its own citizens. Because the NSA was in good hands during Obama right ? No Trump isn't Hitler and the USA aren't going to turn into the Third Reich, it will be no better or worse that the current situation under Obama. The US president doesn't have total power over this country. Stop the insane fear mongering.

legodt 10y ago
No, but this new president is appointing a series of people with white nationalist leanings to a variety of posts within the government that do hold a lot of power. It is perfectly reasonable to be in fear right now. Action is always better, but it takes time to reel from and better understand this new threat to minorities and marginalized groups in the US
- aikah 10y ago
  > with white nationalist leanings Ah the "white nationalist" narrative. I forgot about that one. There no "white nationalist" appointee. But I guess everybody who isn't a progressive is a "white nationalist" now.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    > There no "white nationalist" appointee In fact there are, including Steve Bannon. There also are religiously prejudiced appointees, such as Michael Flynn and Jeff Sessions. IIRC, that's 3 of the 4 appointees announced so far.
    - woofyman 10y ago
      Sessions is a drug warrior and against sentencing reform. He also voted against the don't tell don't ask repeal act of 2010.
      - 10y ago

hackuser 10y ago

It came out recently that the US Census Dept helped the government identify Americans of Japanese decent for internment.

akytt 10y ago

Exactly. Which means the resistance to building a functional population registry does not prevent any wrongdoing but stops the society from getting any of the gains. Like having a meaningful way to prevent non-citizens from voting, avoid identity theft etc.