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If found myself turned off Ubuntu because of Unity, despite using Ubuntu itself since 2005. Odd orange and purple, new odd left menu, general sense Ubuntu was

by zhte415 10y ago

If found myself turned off Ubuntu because of Unity, despite using Ubuntu itself since 2005. Odd orange and purple, new odd left menu, general sense Ubuntu was changing how I didn't want it to. Moved to Mint. Seemed to replicate Windows XP but by a pain. The upgrade path for Mint felt not dissimilar to jumping into the sea off a cliff 50 feet up with an incoming storm. I've done both. The sea took 15 minutes to swim 50 feet. Mint was worse. But then, out of chance installing on a laptop that wasn't sure it was UEFI or BIOS (yes, BIOS in UEFI mode), lacking much in terms of storage media, plus a weak internet connection, knew Ubuntu had a mini install, not server install, but mini install, but had never used before. Not so well linked to on the website but for benefit of all here's the link: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/MinimalCD about 40MB. Fantastic. Complete Ubuntu ecosystem underpinned by Debian solidness. And straight-up GNOME environment (or GUI of choosing, or lack of, selectable on install). No cruft, but as full featured as any Ubuntu can be. And lets GNOME actually be enjoyed with customisation, but also allows the focus and productivity that GNOME esp. GNOME3 offer. The OP is about OSX to Mac. Completely support Ubuntu/GNOME. Absolutely suggest straight OSX > GNOME and it/general Ubuntu ecosystem. Avoids messing with Unity or any 'Ubuntu minus Unity' system reinvention, and lets one enjoy using a computer, not being frustrated by it.

Kenji 10y ago
Yes, Unity was a huge step down. The fact that it combines windows of the same binary into one icon drives me insane! Because that means I now need two clicks to navigate to those windows, costing me multiple seconds with every context switch. Someone asked a question on UX stackexchange on how to turn off this behaviour and the answer was along the lines of "it's impossible and you don't need that because you don't know what you want". Frustrating. EDIT: Oh, and I almost forgot. The fact that the little 'x' close button of maximized windows cannot be clicked if a smaller window is active and in the foreground. That drives me nuts.
- johnchristopher 10y ago
  > EDIT: Oh, and I almost forgot. The fact that the little 'x' close button of maximized windows cannot be clicked if a smaller window is active and in the foreground. That drives me nuts. I don't understand: That's default GTK/win behaviour when the smaller window is part of the background window (like LO prompting for closing/saving/cancelling the document you are editing when you click the close button of LO). It's a pop up.
  - Kenji 10y ago
    Yes, it makes sense when you close your word processor and you have unsaved work, that the popup asking you to save your work has priority and prevents the close button from being clicked. However, it does not make sense that if I have a small console window in the foreground and my word processor in the back, that I cannot close my word processor with one click - but I can't. That's default behaviour in Unity.
    - type0 10y ago
      > However, it does not make sense that if I have a small console window in the foreground and my word processor in the back, that I cannot close my word processor with one click - but I can't. That's default behaviour in Unity. These small but idiosyncratic behaviors in Unity that probably drive so many people away. It is long time sine I used Unity last, but there was enough of these quirks that made it unpleasant to use.
    - johnchristopher 10y ago
      Thanks for your detailed answer. I didn't know things had gotten to that point :/ (I am an awesome-wm user on top of debian with xfce install who kinda like gnome3).
- zzzcpan 10y ago
  Mouse button clicks are generally for lazy, laid back behavior and not for fast and productive. You are supposed to use keyboard for that. Although there are definitely some cases where their UI fails and multiple windows of the same app is usually among them, like alt+tab is absolutely useless in this scenario on unity, it's way faster to use mouse to switch between them if you have to work with more than two of them on a single workspace.
  - pkd 10y ago
    You can use alt + ~ to switch between open windows of the same application. Long pressing the super(windows) key shows more shortcuts.
    - zzzcpan 10y ago
      Thanks, didn't notice it.
  - Shorel 10y ago
    Pftt. You can be fast with both. Any Starcraft player knows that. The fact that you are slow with the mouse is not something that can be generalized to all the population. Yes, I know I always get down-votes whenever I mention this.
    - zzzcpan 10y ago
      Per Fitts's law [1], your screen is a lot bigger than the keyboard and your pointer is a lot farther from most targets, than your fingers on the keyboard that you keep on those "asdf" "jkl;" keys. So you can't be faster with mouse on most shortcuts most of the time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law
      - Shorel 10y ago
        Using a good mouse and disabling mouse acceleration I can certainly be quite fast, only a fraction of a second slower than using a keyboard shortcut. With mouse acceleration, or with a trackpad, I think I agree with you. It also depends on the task. I can select and move a piece of text from one place to another faster with the mouse than with any way of keyboard shortcuts. For example, using vim shortcuts I have to count the number of lines I need to move the cursor before typing the order and it is always faster for me to just move the mouse cursor than to count the lines.
tajen 10y ago
I too have been put off by Unity when it appeared, and moved to Mac. It's sad that they lost so many people, they were on the path to become the leader OS, and not only among the Linux community. Did they even gain more of the target users (tablets) they hoped to reach with Unity? But there's always one guy to say "Hey, I like Unity, plus you can always configure Gnome or get Kubuntu if you like" and the mere doubt of a debate dillutes the elephant in the room, which is that Unity wasn't capable of generating massive adoption, as opposed to most other DEs. Yep, some people liked Unity, but it's only some people, that's the problem.
- nol13 10y ago
  It is a shame. Their hand was kind of forced by GNOME 3 at the time but the damage was done either way.
- KKKKkkkk1 10y ago
  Sorry to be that guy, but I like Unity. My vie is that Unity is Canonical's way of integrating the good features of MacOS into the Linux desktop and moving away from the Windows-lookalike strategy the GNOME project used to have. So I would argue that if people migrated from Ubuntu to MacOS, it's not because they don't like Unity, but rather because they like MacOS or Apple machines in general, and Unity was Canonical's response precisely to that.
  - tajen 10y ago
    I didn't even know MacOS when I migrated. I just did it because I literally couldn't work anymore in Ubuntu. I just knew some people could get the job done in Mac, which doesn't happen to be the case with Ubuntu.
- IE6 10y ago
  Not doubting you but has anyone produced metrics to show a drop off in adoption, install, usage of Ubuntu after Unity came around? I was one of those people but I suspect I can't be the majority. Today I use it and honestly dunno why I was so resistant. On a dev box, however, I'll use i3 or something.
dorfsmay 10y ago
There is a Ubuntu that does GNOME straight from the install. I've been using it since it came out a few years ago: https://ubuntugnome.org/ https://ubuntugnome.org/
- bdz 10y ago
  Or Ubuntu-MATE if you prefere the old GNOME2 UI https://ubuntu-mate.org/ https://ubuntu-mate.org/
thejosh 10y ago
I've always hated the default Ubuntu since they switched to unity. I used Lubuntu for a while, and now use Xubuntu on everything. I love it, and wouldn't switch back. But everyone has their preference, I find this very usable and out of your way
- ptrincr 10y ago
  Am I the only one who uses Flashback Metacity? It's nice and fast, no bells as whistles.
pekk 10y ago
Congratulations, you discovered that Ubuntu is a Linux distribution and not a wallpaper of a color you do not prefer. People can also use the normal Ubuntu install media to install something other than Unity, and they can change the wallpaper to a color they like.
Shorel 10y ago
I left Linux in the days of Mandrake (that was its name then) and KDE, because it was a bad copy of windows XP. I saw the GUI of that era as something without character, only copying XP and later trying to copy OS X, but in an incomplete way, and mainly, without something that can be perceived as original. In fact, the Ubuntu I saw before Unity was almost a carbon copy of OSX. Macbuntu 10.04 was a thing. And it was a thing because of the lack of identity the Linux DEs had before Unity. I read about Ubuntu, and decided to try again, and this time I forced myself to learn the keyboard shortcuts. That's the main difference and what made me swear this is the DE for me. The HUD is a game changer. The keyboard shortcuts to switch between virtual desktops, and to move windows between them are second nature now. The same to maximize or half-screen maximize them. I went back to using Linux full time, because of Unity. I have changed some of the default keyboard shortcuts, and enabled virtual desktops but otherwise it is the vanilla experience. It helps me work faster and better. And it really feels like its own thing. I know it is not Windows and I know it is not OS X. I understand you got used to the previous thing, but Unity is better for me and for many others. I always miss the Unity keyboard shortcuts whenever I'm using any other DE, including when I use Windows.

by zhte415 10y ago

Kenji 10y ago

Yes, Unity was a huge step down. The fact that it combines windows of the same binary into one icon drives me insane! Because that means I now need two clicks to navigate to those windows, costing me multiple seconds with every context switch. Someone asked a question on UX stackexchange on how to turn off this behaviour and the answer was along the lines of "it's impossible and you don't need that because you don't know what you want". Frustrating. EDIT: Oh, and I almost forgot. The fact that the little 'x' close button of maximized windows cannot be clicked if a smaller window is active and in the foreground. That drives me nuts.

johnchristopher 10y ago
> EDIT: Oh, and I almost forgot. The fact that the little 'x' close button of maximized windows cannot be clicked if a smaller window is active and in the foreground. That drives me nuts. I don't understand: That's default GTK/win behaviour when the smaller window is part of the background window (like LO prompting for closing/saving/cancelling the document you are editing when you click the close button of LO). It's a pop up.
- Kenji 10y ago
  Yes, it makes sense when you close your word processor and you have unsaved work, that the popup asking you to save your work has priority and prevents the close button from being clicked. However, it does not make sense that if I have a small console window in the foreground and my word processor in the back, that I cannot close my word processor with one click - but I can't. That's default behaviour in Unity.
  - type0 10y ago
    > However, it does not make sense that if I have a small console window in the foreground and my word processor in the back, that I cannot close my word processor with one click - but I can't. That's default behaviour in Unity. These small but idiosyncratic behaviors in Unity that probably drive so many people away. It is long time sine I used Unity last, but there was enough of these quirks that made it unpleasant to use.
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    Thanks for your detailed answer. I didn't know things had gotten to that point :/ (I am an awesome-wm user on top of debian with xfce install who kinda like gnome3).
zzzcpan 10y ago
Mouse button clicks are generally for lazy, laid back behavior and not for fast and productive. You are supposed to use keyboard for that. Although there are definitely some cases where their UI fails and multiple windows of the same app is usually among them, like alt+tab is absolutely useless in this scenario on unity, it's way faster to use mouse to switch between them if you have to work with more than two of them on a single workspace.
- pkd 10y ago
  You can use alt + ~ to switch between open windows of the same application. Long pressing the super(windows) key shows more shortcuts.
  - zzzcpan 10y ago
    Thanks, didn't notice it.
- Shorel 10y ago
  Pftt. You can be fast with both. Any Starcraft player knows that. The fact that you are slow with the mouse is not something that can be generalized to all the population. Yes, I know I always get down-votes whenever I mention this.
  - zzzcpan 10y ago
    Per Fitts's law [1], your screen is a lot bigger than the keyboard and your pointer is a lot farther from most targets, than your fingers on the keyboard that you keep on those "asdf" "jkl;" keys. So you can't be faster with mouse on most shortcuts most of the time. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitts's_law
    - Shorel 10y ago
      Using a good mouse and disabling mouse acceleration I can certainly be quite fast, only a fraction of a second slower than using a keyboard shortcut. With mouse acceleration, or with a trackpad, I think I agree with you. It also depends on the task. I can select and move a piece of text from one place to another faster with the mouse than with any way of keyboard shortcuts. For example, using vim shortcuts I have to count the number of lines I need to move the cursor before typing the order and it is always faster for me to just move the mouse cursor than to count the lines.

tajen 10y ago

I too have been put off by Unity when it appeared, and moved to Mac. It's sad that they lost so many people, they were on the path to become the leader OS, and not only among the Linux community. Did they even gain more of the target users (tablets) they hoped to reach with Unity? But there's always one guy to say "Hey, I like Unity, plus you can always configure Gnome or get Kubuntu if you like" and the mere doubt of a debate dillutes the elephant in the room, which is that Unity wasn't capable of generating massive adoption, as opposed to most other DEs. Yep, some people liked Unity, but it's only some people, that's the problem.

nol13 10y ago
It is a shame. Their hand was kind of forced by GNOME 3 at the time but the damage was done either way.
KKKKkkkk1 10y ago
Sorry to be that guy, but I like Unity. My vie is that Unity is Canonical's way of integrating the good features of MacOS into the Linux desktop and moving away from the Windows-lookalike strategy the GNOME project used to have. So I would argue that if people migrated from Ubuntu to MacOS, it's not because they don't like Unity, but rather because they like MacOS or Apple machines in general, and Unity was Canonical's response precisely to that.
- tajen 10y ago
  I didn't even know MacOS when I migrated. I just did it because I literally couldn't work anymore in Ubuntu. I just knew some people could get the job done in Mac, which doesn't happen to be the case with Ubuntu.
IE6 10y ago
Not doubting you but has anyone produced metrics to show a drop off in adoption, install, usage of Ubuntu after Unity came around? I was one of those people but I suspect I can't be the majority. Today I use it and honestly dunno why I was so resistant. On a dev box, however, I'll use i3 or something.

dorfsmay 10y ago

There is a Ubuntu that does GNOME straight from the install. I've been using it since it came out a few years ago: https://ubuntugnome.org/ https://ubuntugnome.org/

bdz 10y ago
Or Ubuntu-MATE if you prefere the old GNOME2 UI https://ubuntu-mate.org/ https://ubuntu-mate.org/

thejosh 10y ago

I've always hated the default Ubuntu since they switched to unity. I used Lubuntu for a while, and now use Xubuntu on everything. I love it, and wouldn't switch back. But everyone has their preference, I find this very usable and out of your way

ptrincr 10y ago
Am I the only one who uses Flashback Metacity? It's nice and fast, no bells as whistles.

pekk 10y ago

Congratulations, you discovered that Ubuntu is a Linux distribution and not a wallpaper of a color you do not prefer. People can also use the normal Ubuntu install media to install something other than Unity, and they can change the wallpaper to a color they like.

Shorel 10y ago

I left Linux in the days of Mandrake (that was its name then) and KDE, because it was a bad copy of windows XP. I saw the GUI of that era as something without character, only copying XP and later trying to copy OS X, but in an incomplete way, and mainly, without something that can be perceived as original. In fact, the Ubuntu I saw before Unity was almost a carbon copy of OSX. Macbuntu 10.04 was a thing. And it was a thing because of the lack of identity the Linux DEs had before Unity. I read about Ubuntu, and decided to try again, and this time I forced myself to learn the keyboard shortcuts. That's the main difference and what made me swear this is the DE for me. The HUD is a game changer. The keyboard shortcuts to switch between virtual desktops, and to move windows between them are second nature now. The same to maximize or half-screen maximize them. I went back to using Linux full time, because of Unity. I have changed some of the default keyboard shortcuts, and enabled virtual desktops but otherwise it is the vanilla experience. It helps me work faster and better. And it really feels like its own thing. I know it is not Windows and I know it is not OS X. I understand you got used to the previous thing, but Unity is better for me and for many others. I always miss the Unity keyboard shortcuts whenever I'm using any other DE, including when I use Windows.