4 ms·

You say that, when the alt right is an artificial internet meme, while leftist dogma rules over universities and continues to go after people's jobs for wrongth

by tnone 10y ago

You say that, when the alt right is an artificial internet meme, while leftist dogma rules over universities and continues to go after people's jobs for wrongthink. Vitriol is clearly a bad measure when subjective interpretation rules are becoming official policy. Even Twitter now has special treatment for particular groups enshrined in its policy. You can be as vitriolic as you want, as long as it's against the "correct" group.

someguydave 10y ago
Hear hear. Equality before the law is the true egalitarian ideal.
- hga 10y ago
  One problem is that, to the extent the inchoate Alt Right has decided upon this (and I think it has), we explicitly reject egalitarianism AKA equalitarianism (they're cognate, right?). In Vox Day's first cut 16 point formulation, Point 7 is: The Alt Right is anti-equalitarian. It rejects the idea of equality for the same reason it rejects the ideas of unicorns and leprechauns, noting that human equality does not exist in any observable scientific, legal, material, intellectual, sexual, or spiritual form. From http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    Well, I appreciate you sharing a clear statement on what it is. I haven't seen one before this. Although plenty is debatable here, No 14 and 15 look immediately contradictory as one leads to laws with a preference for whites or discrimination against blacks while other implies a pure meritocracy. I don't have to guess about this, though, given I live in the South whose history shows how it plays out. ;) Good that there's a number of items on the list I agree with. Some common ground.
    - hga 10y ago
      Note that #14 is simply a version of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words Besides being cute in making it #14, I suspect he felt it needs to be explicitly stated since its inverse is an explicit goal of our enemies. Although Vox Day himself isn't "white", and I'll note as a matter of taxonomy divides the Alt Right into the Alt West and Alt White, the latter a very small subset. The general answer to the apparent contradiction is generally found in the other points and implied in #15: complete separation, e.g. #11 "The Alt Right understands that diversity + proximity = war." No proximity, no war of that sort e.g. embedded in those laws you refer to, and therefore no problems with #14 of those sorts. Also, I should make clear this is Vox Day's first cut of a statement of what the Alt Right is, but he thinks it's solid enough to get it translated into quite a few languages now. But the Alt Right is still seriously inchoate.
      - nickpsecurity 10y ago
        Interesting. I do understand the concept of having an inverse. A person in West Tennessee explained to me why she discouraged whites and blacks marrying. Seems like pure hatefulness at the start. No, her concern was that they rarely have white kids. Enough of it happening would eliminate the white race. Other races also work hard to preserve their ethnic history, especially cosmetic stuff. I don't see it as any different so long as laws aren't passed for banning it or people hated on for not following the preference. That is, I don't like it but I understand it's similar to what other groups do. "#11 "The Alt Right understands that diversity + proximity = war." That needs some explanation. What does that mean exactly?
        hga 10y ago
        #11 "The Alt Right understands that diversity + proximity = war." It means if you put enough people of different identities in close proximity, the inevitable result is "war". Maybe not Yugoslavia type war, but warfare of one type or another, including "simple" economic warfare, which was one of the causes of The War Between the States, and had been a frequent problem for the young Republic prior to that, but it also happens on very small scales, see for example the various non-native merchant classes in so many countries, and that doesn't require large numbers on both sides. There's a social scientist who's research said much the same thing, who published his data early but otherwise sat on his results for more than a decade, Robert Putnam. As Wikipedia puts it, "His conclusion based on over 40 cases and 30,000 people within the United States is that, other things being equal, more diversity in a community is associated with less trust both between and within ethnic groups." (emphasis in original: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and_trust_within_communities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and...).
  - samudrin 10y ago
    There's so much wrong with this voxday manifest I don't know where to start. "The Alt Right believes Western civilization is the pinnacle of human achievement and supports its three foundational pillars: Christianity, the European nations, and the Graeco-Roman legacy." Smacks of racism... But we all need our selective foundation myths. "5. ...It supports all nationalisms and the right of all nations to exist, homogeneous and unadulterated by foreign invasion and immigration." So does the Alt-Right support the right of self-determination and national autonomy for the Palestinians in Israeli-Occupied Territories? Does the Alt-Right aspire to the German National-Socialists of the 20's-40's? "7. The Alt Right is anti-equalitarian. It rejects the idea of equality..." So not all people should be equal before the law? "scientodific" - is that even a word? "10. The Alt Right is opposed to the rule or domination of any native ethnic group by another, particularly in the sovereign homelands of the dominated peoples." I think Native Americans would agree with you here. "14. The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children." And then the overt racism. "15. ...human sub-species..." I didn't realize there was such a thing. Last I checked DNA is DNA and sperm fertilizes egg. This whole things is racist. It is small-minded, backwards thinking, isolationist, static and reactionary. These ideas are further an affront to the Enlightenment ideals that are one of the true cornerstone of western civilization, whose roots go deeper than Greece and Rome, and the progress that we all benefit from - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment Get outta Dodge yo.
    - hga 10y ago
      So does the Alt-Right support the right of self-determination and national autonomy for the Palestinians in Israeli-Occupied Territories? Yes, but there has to be physical separation. So one way or another, the "occupied" has to go. That's explicitly covered in #10, and #15 says at the end "Every race, nation, people, and human sub-species ... possesses the sovereign right to dwell unmolested in the native culture it prefers." Does the Alt-Right aspire to the German National-Socialists of the 20's-40's? No, if for no other reason than that they lost ^_^! The Alt Right is about winning, and the NASDP weren't winners, from the individual level (see how many biographies, granted, biased, say pretty early on "a failed X", starting with Hitler), all the way to the international level. So not all people should be equal before the law? That's pretty clear from many of the other points. E.g. a person from "race, nation, people, [or] human sub-species" who's not in one of their nations would not have the same rights as natives of the nation. "scientodific" - is that even a word? It's a supremely infelicitous neologism coined by Vox Day that I don't see anyone else picking up because it's so bad. But it's defined in the next sentence of the point, so, eh. I think Native Americans would agree with you here. Which just so happen to include Vox Day ^_^ (long suspected by he and his siblings, then recently confirmed by genetic testing; he's also of Mexican descent. No doubt part of why he's part of the Alt West, not the Alt White, although there's also mere details like Christianity differentiating the two subsets of the Alt Right as he's defined their taxonomy, as noted by many including Hitler, Jesus was a Jew after all). I think the "human sub-species" being referred to in #15 pertains to the recent discoveries WRT to Neanderthal intermixing and the like, but this is not an topic I follow. Ah, per Wikipedia, and this is following earlier research first published in 2010 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal): "In 2016, research indicated that modern humans had three distinct interbreeding events with Neanderthals: the first encounter involved the ancestors of all non-African modern humans, probably soon after leaving Africa; the second, after the ancestral Melanesian group had branched off (and subsequently had a unique breeding event with Denisovans); and the third, involving the ancestors of East Asians only. In short, only members of the Negroid race are pure homo sapiens ^_^. Last I checked DNA is DNA and sperm fertilizes egg. When it comes to defining species and sub-species, not exactly; per Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies): A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms in which two individuals are capable of reproducing fertile offspring, typically using sexual reproduction. A common way to decide is that organisms belonging to different subspecies of the same species are capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring, but they do not usually interbreed in nature due to geographic isolation, sexual selection, or other factors.
  - hga 10y ago
    Someone came up with a very simplified version, BTW, http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/11/alt-right-what-it-is.html http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/11/alt-right-what-it-is.html short enough to quote in full: 1. Alt Right is right-wing. No lefties! 2. Alt Right so edge, not lame. Cucks and cons so lame. 3. Alt Right gonna win. Not gonna lose. 4. Europe good, church good, white people good. History good too. 5. Freedom for everybody! 6. Stay home and don't touch the foreign poop. 7. Equality bad, equality isn't even. 8. Science good. Made-up shit bad. 9. Everybody votes they boys. 10. Small crew can't tell big crowd what to do. Not for long, anyhow. 11. MS-13 and Latin Kings gonna kill Crips and Bloods. And vice-versa. Keep them apart. 12. Alt Right don't give no fucks. 13. Free trade bad. No jobs, no money! 14. White people good. 15. Leave all them Red, Yellow, Brown, and Black people alone. 16. War bad, genocide bad too. TL;DR: Everyone should be left by they own damn selves

by tnone 10y ago

someguydave 10y ago

Hear hear. Equality before the law is the true egalitarian ideal.

hga 10y ago
One problem is that, to the extent the inchoate Alt Right has decided upon this (and I think it has), we explicitly reject egalitarianism AKA equalitarianism (they're cognate, right?). In Vox Day's first cut 16 point formulation, Point 7 is: The Alt Right is anti-equalitarian. It rejects the idea of equality for the same reason it rejects the ideas of unicorns and leprechauns, noting that human equality does not exist in any observable scientific, legal, material, intellectual, sexual, or spiritual form. From http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  Well, I appreciate you sharing a clear statement on what it is. I haven't seen one before this. Although plenty is debatable here, No 14 and 15 look immediately contradictory as one leads to laws with a preference for whites or discrimination against blacks while other implies a pure meritocracy. I don't have to guess about this, though, given I live in the South whose history shows how it plays out. ;) Good that there's a number of items on the list I agree with. Some common ground.
  - hga 10y ago
    Note that #14 is simply a version of this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourteen_Words Besides being cute in making it #14, I suspect he felt it needs to be explicitly stated since its inverse is an explicit goal of our enemies. Although Vox Day himself isn't "white", and I'll note as a matter of taxonomy divides the Alt Right into the Alt West and Alt White, the latter a very small subset. The general answer to the apparent contradiction is generally found in the other points and implied in #15: complete separation, e.g. #11 "The Alt Right understands that diversity + proximity = war." No proximity, no war of that sort e.g. embedded in those laws you refer to, and therefore no problems with #14 of those sorts. Also, I should make clear this is Vox Day's first cut of a statement of what the Alt Right is, but he thinks it's solid enough to get it translated into quite a few languages now. But the Alt Right is still seriously inchoate.
    - nickpsecurity 10y ago
      Interesting. I do understand the concept of having an inverse. A person in West Tennessee explained to me why she discouraged whites and blacks marrying. Seems like pure hatefulness at the start. No, her concern was that they rarely have white kids. Enough of it happening would eliminate the white race. Other races also work hard to preserve their ethnic history, especially cosmetic stuff. I don't see it as any different so long as laws aren't passed for banning it or people hated on for not following the preference. That is, I don't like it but I understand it's similar to what other groups do. "#11 "The Alt Right understands that diversity + proximity = war." That needs some explanation. What does that mean exactly?
      - hga 10y ago
        #11 "The Alt Right understands that diversity + proximity = war." It means if you put enough people of different identities in close proximity, the inevitable result is "war". Maybe not Yugoslavia type war, but warfare of one type or another, including "simple" economic warfare, which was one of the causes of The War Between the States, and had been a frequent problem for the young Republic prior to that, but it also happens on very small scales, see for example the various non-native merchant classes in so many countries, and that doesn't require large numbers on both sides. There's a social scientist who's research said much the same thing, who published his data early but otherwise sat on his results for more than a decade, Robert Putnam. As Wikipedia puts it, "His conclusion based on over 40 cases and 30,000 people within the United States is that, other things being equal, more diversity in a community is associated with less trust both between and within ethnic groups." (emphasis in original: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and_trust_within_communities https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_D._Putnam#Diversity_and...).
- samudrin 10y ago
  There's so much wrong with this voxday manifest I don't know where to start. "The Alt Right believes Western civilization is the pinnacle of human achievement and supports its three foundational pillars: Christianity, the European nations, and the Graeco-Roman legacy." Smacks of racism... But we all need our selective foundation myths. "5. ...It supports all nationalisms and the right of all nations to exist, homogeneous and unadulterated by foreign invasion and immigration." So does the Alt-Right support the right of self-determination and national autonomy for the Palestinians in Israeli-Occupied Territories? Does the Alt-Right aspire to the German National-Socialists of the 20's-40's? "7. The Alt Right is anti-equalitarian. It rejects the idea of equality..." So not all people should be equal before the law? "scientodific" - is that even a word? "10. The Alt Right is opposed to the rule or domination of any native ethnic group by another, particularly in the sovereign homelands of the dominated peoples." I think Native Americans would agree with you here. "14. The Alt Right believes we must secure the existence of white people and a future for white children." And then the overt racism. "15. ...human sub-species..." I didn't realize there was such a thing. Last I checked DNA is DNA and sperm fertilizes egg. This whole things is racist. It is small-minded, backwards thinking, isolationist, static and reactionary. These ideas are further an affront to the Enlightenment ideals that are one of the true cornerstone of western civilization, whose roots go deeper than Greece and Rome, and the progress that we all benefit from - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Age_of_Enlightenment Get outta Dodge yo.
  - hga 10y ago
    So does the Alt-Right support the right of self-determination and national autonomy for the Palestinians in Israeli-Occupied Territories? Yes, but there has to be physical separation. So one way or another, the "occupied" has to go. That's explicitly covered in #10, and #15 says at the end "Every race, nation, people, and human sub-species ... possesses the sovereign right to dwell unmolested in the native culture it prefers." Does the Alt-Right aspire to the German National-Socialists of the 20's-40's? No, if for no other reason than that they lost ^_^! The Alt Right is about winning, and the NASDP weren't winners, from the individual level (see how many biographies, granted, biased, say pretty early on "a failed X", starting with Hitler), all the way to the international level. So not all people should be equal before the law? That's pretty clear from many of the other points. E.g. a person from "race, nation, people, [or] human sub-species" who's not in one of their nations would not have the same rights as natives of the nation. "scientodific" - is that even a word? It's a supremely infelicitous neologism coined by Vox Day that I don't see anyone else picking up because it's so bad. But it's defined in the next sentence of the point, so, eh. I think Native Americans would agree with you here. Which just so happen to include Vox Day ^_^ (long suspected by he and his siblings, then recently confirmed by genetic testing; he's also of Mexican descent. No doubt part of why he's part of the Alt West, not the Alt White, although there's also mere details like Christianity differentiating the two subsets of the Alt Right as he's defined their taxonomy, as noted by many including Hitler, Jesus was a Jew after all). I think the "human sub-species" being referred to in #15 pertains to the recent discoveries WRT to Neanderthal intermixing and the like, but this is not an topic I follow. Ah, per Wikipedia, and this is following earlier research first published in 2010 (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal): "In 2016, research indicated that modern humans had three distinct interbreeding events with Neanderthals: the first encounter involved the ancestors of all non-African modern humans, probably soon after leaving Africa; the second, after the ancestral Melanesian group had branched off (and subsequently had a unique breeding event with Denisovans); and the third, involving the ancestors of East Asians only. In short, only members of the Negroid race are pure homo sapiens ^_^. Last I checked DNA is DNA and sperm fertilizes egg. When it comes to defining species and sub-species, not exactly; per Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Species and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subspecies): A species is often defined as the largest group of organisms in which two individuals are capable of reproducing fertile offspring, typically using sexual reproduction. A common way to decide is that organisms belonging to different subspecies of the same species are capable of interbreeding and producing fertile offspring, but they do not usually interbreed in nature due to geographic isolation, sexual selection, or other factors.
- hga 10y ago
  Someone came up with a very simplified version, BTW, http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/11/alt-right-what-it-is.html http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/11/alt-right-what-it-is.html short enough to quote in full: 1. Alt Right is right-wing. No lefties! 2. Alt Right so edge, not lame. Cucks and cons so lame. 3. Alt Right gonna win. Not gonna lose. 4. Europe good, church good, white people good. History good too. 5. Freedom for everybody! 6. Stay home and don't touch the foreign poop. 7. Equality bad, equality isn't even. 8. Science good. Made-up shit bad. 9. Everybody votes they boys. 10. Small crew can't tell big crowd what to do. Not for long, anyhow. 11. MS-13 and Latin Kings gonna kill Crips and Bloods. And vice-versa. Keep them apart. 12. Alt Right don't give no fucks. 13. Free trade bad. No jobs, no money! 14. White people good. 15. Leave all them Red, Yellow, Brown, and Black people alone. 16. War bad, genocide bad too. TL;DR: Everyone should be left by they own damn selves