4 ms·

> high-level userland software link to libsystemd is viable and acceptable This is a direct violation of the KISS principle which made Unix and Linux so great.

by progman 10y ago

> high-level userland software link to libsystemd is viable and acceptable This is a direct violation of the KISS principle which made Unix and Linux so great. Not only do they want to intertwine user software with system software, now they even want an additional layer of abstraction on the _system_ level! I think we need a counter strategy against the aggressive takeover of the Linux land before it is too late. I have nothing against people who love systemd. If they want it they should use it. But any Linux user should also have the option to get rid of systemd _completely_ if it turns out to be a failure. Init systems and system services should be as replacable as desktop environments! Only if systemd is aiming to be "portable" like that than I can live in peace with it.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
>I think we need a counter strategy The Gentoo folks, as well as many of us Arch users, are with you. Gentoo in particular has been aggressively forking and maintaining patch sets for any of the software that has succumbed to the cancer (the *kits, various desktop software, DBUS, GNOME, and most notably udev. Although if they weren't needed for some pieces of software I use, I'd gladly chuck 90% of that stuff). So yeah, if you want to help, that's where to contribute your effort.
- progman 10y ago
  > So yeah, if you want to help, that's where to contribute your effort. Gentoo and Arch are good options. However, in the long term classical Linux will likely only be able to run on retro systems and FREE HARDWARE! If Gentoo and Arch want to survive they should focus on free hardware pretty soon. I think so because upcoming mainstream hardware will likely all be based on UEFI/SB. SB is yet optional but I expect it to be mandatory soon. Only Linux with certified kernels -- likely systemd Linux -- will be supported on those systems. I don't like that because I want to be able to install up-to-date kernels and software at any time without messing around with proprietary certificates. The Monster 6502 [1] was an excellent starting point into a world of discrete SMD cpus. I hope there will also be a 16/32-bit cpu capable to run Linux (or its successor). At least 68katy [2] is capable. The most promising project however is RISC-V which will hopefully be available with non SB-mainboards. [1] http://monster6502.com http://monster6502.com [2] http://www.bigmessowires.com/category/68katy/ http://www.bigmessowires.com/category/68katy/ [3] https://riscv.org https://riscv.org
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    I'm dubious of that assertion, although it is good to know how the free hardware projects are going. We may well get a cert for UEFI SB, and if we don't, then someone will crack it sooner or later. Honestly, the only thing that keeps me from migrating to the BSDs at this point is Steam.
    - progman 10y ago
      > We may well get a cert for UEFI SB, As long as the vendors cooperate you will be fine. We will see how it works at Win 11+. > and if we don't, then someone will crack it sooner or later. Other people may be able to live with it but for me this is an unacceptable option. Either a system fully supports Linux or BSD, or I take another one.

by progman 10y ago

qwertyuiop924 10y ago

>I think we need a counter strategy The Gentoo folks, as well as many of us Arch users, are with you. Gentoo in particular has been aggressively forking and maintaining patch sets for any of the software that has succumbed to the cancer (the *kits, various desktop software, DBUS, GNOME, and most notably udev. Although if they weren't needed for some pieces of software I use, I'd gladly chuck 90% of that stuff). So yeah, if you want to help, that's where to contribute your effort.

progman 10y ago
> So yeah, if you want to help, that's where to contribute your effort. Gentoo and Arch are good options. However, in the long term classical Linux will likely only be able to run on retro systems and FREE HARDWARE! If Gentoo and Arch want to survive they should focus on free hardware pretty soon. I think so because upcoming mainstream hardware will likely all be based on UEFI/SB. SB is yet optional but I expect it to be mandatory soon. Only Linux with certified kernels -- likely systemd Linux -- will be supported on those systems. I don't like that because I want to be able to install up-to-date kernels and software at any time without messing around with proprietary certificates. The Monster 6502 [1] was an excellent starting point into a world of discrete SMD cpus. I hope there will also be a 16/32-bit cpu capable to run Linux (or its successor). At least 68katy [2] is capable. The most promising project however is RISC-V which will hopefully be available with non SB-mainboards. [1] http://monster6502.com http://monster6502.com [2] http://www.bigmessowires.com/category/68katy/ http://www.bigmessowires.com/category/68katy/ [3] https://riscv.org https://riscv.org
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  I'm dubious of that assertion, although it is good to know how the free hardware projects are going. We may well get a cert for UEFI SB, and if we don't, then someone will crack it sooner or later. Honestly, the only thing that keeps me from migrating to the BSDs at this point is Steam.
  - progman 10y ago
    > We may well get a cert for UEFI SB, As long as the vendors cooperate you will be fine. We will see how it works at Win 11+. > and if we don't, then someone will crack it sooner or later. Other people may be able to live with it but for me this is an unacceptable option. Either a system fully supports Linux or BSD, or I take another one.