3 ms·

My problem: I haven't been able to find ANY programmers. I've posted fliers, posted on craigslist, talked to professors, etc. looking for skilled programmers to

by kyro 20y ago

My problem: I haven't been able to find ANY programmers. I've posted fliers, posted on craigslist, talked to professors, etc. looking for skilled programmers to help me get this startup in development, but I haven't received a single response. I grow exponentially frustrated day after day and feel like I have exercised all my options. If any of you have any suggestions on how you or your team found a coder, it'd be greatly appreciated. For anyone who happens to have coincidentally come across this and is a coder, I am based in Orange County / San Diego , CA. Further information about product details, etc. can be discussed upon further contact. If interested, email me at: kbeshay@gmail.com

bootload 20y ago
'... Further information about product details, etc. can be discussed upon further contact. ...' Do you have a demo? a blog? or something you can show? Build, talk create an audience and the long tail of the Internet will work for you. [0] Not having something, anything to show is counter to what's really going on at the moment in the web where there is an avalanche of interesting things going on. You have to market yourself [0], no not market, make a statement. Here are the words I use to motivate myself here ... '... Momentum builds on itself -- just start. Do whatever you can. Draw a user interface. Write a spec. Make something, anything, that people can see and touch and try. A prototype is worth ten thousand words. ...' [1] More releases (code, blogs, demos), less searching. This is not a criticism, just an observation. Remember we are in a boom so lots of really interesting things are happening. You have to compete and show your stuff by releasing and listening to your audience. Reference [0] It also tells you if are building crap that nobody wants to read, run or download. [1] Marc Hedland, 'Entrepreneurial Proverbs, Starting' http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/entrepreneurial_proverbs.html http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/entrepreneurial_proverbs.html
- kyro 20y ago
  Yeah, see, the issue is, I am trying to find coders so that I can make my idea tangible. It is only idea as of now, and I'm looking for skilled people to make this idea a reality, such as a demo. However, I am hesitant to just explain my idea and post it throughout the internet in hopes of attracting people for fear that someone can just run with the idea on their own. I mean, I am just the idea guy with creativity, they're the coder, they can live without me, but I can't live without them. How do you suggest I lure coders without exposing too much about the site's idea? How do I convey that good pay will probably not be the case, rather that he/she will be a partner in the startup, without turning away possible applicants?
  - nostrademons 20y ago
    "I mean, I am just the idea guy with creativity, they're the coder, they can live without me, but I can't live without them." If that's the case, you really have a problem. Ideas are worth next to nothing. If you did manage to get one to join you, he'd likely leave at the first excuse. Why? Because you're contributing nothing. Find some way to be of value as the startup grows. Learn some domain knowledge about the market. Talk to potential prospects. There are many things a technical cofounder can't or doesn't want to do on his own, and if you do them, he'll have a reason to work with you. But if you're just contributing the initial idea, there's no reason for him to work with you.
    - kyro 20y ago
      Well, don't get me wrong, I think I would contribute a lot to the team. The reason for saying that was to outline my fear of luring in a coder by exposing my idea, and having such a person run off with it.
      - danw 20y ago
        If you can't trust the coder with your idea, how are you going to build a good team? 1) Be open with your idea 2) If you're not coding, show what you are contributing
      - nostrademons 20y ago
        Thing is - if your business will fail because somebody ran off with your idea, you have a problem. Because the moment it looks like you're onto something, somebody will run off with your idea. The only way to keep it secret is to never launch, and that means you don't have a business. It's more important to be able to move quickly once people copy your idea and stay ahead of them. That means finding a good coder, knowing a lot about the problem domain, and talking to lots of prospects. Basically, success is all about having many good ideas, one after another. The first one just gets you in the door - it's usually wrong anyways. It can't get you in the door if you never tell anyone though.
  - bootload 20y ago
nostrademons 20y ago
Learn to program. ;-) Seriously, there are a bunch of reasons why coders turn down a startup: 1.) Not enough compensation. If you're paying them cash, you have to pay them market rates. For a bright but junior programmer, that's minimum $55-60K/year. salary in most of the tech hotspots. For someone experienced, figure at least $100k/year. If you're looking for hourly contractors, expect to pay at least $75/hour for anyone decent. If you give them equity - well, I personally would not join a startup for less than 20% equity, and I suspect many other technical founders have similar minimums. Actually, the only reason my current startup got away with so little (I'm getting 25%) is because it has 5 founders, and nobody else has more than 25%. 2.) Boring idea. Good programmers like to work on interesting problems. I joined my startup because it was in a problem domain that I waste a lot of time in anyways, I knew the area, and it'd let me try some cool stuff that I didn't know if I could do, but it'd be fun as hell to try. 3.) They don't trust you. Techies have a natural aversion to business-type people. Be straight with them, always. The second they think you're trying to bullshit them, they'll walk away. 4.) They don't think you add much value. Ultimately, it'll be the techie building the product. They need a reason why working with you beats building the product on your own. Usually, your best bet is to have a large personal network, or good people skills, or the ability to sell something. I don't think it's necessarily true that techies can't be good with people, but in my experience, I can't code and be good with people at the same time, so have a cofounder with people skills has been a big win for me. Remember, if you're founding a technical startup, you want the best coder you can find. He'll usually be young, because good experienced coders typically have families and will not work for stock, and you generally can't afford the $150K/year that they'll cost you. Don't try to skimp and get cheaper labor - lots of companies tried that in the dot-com bomb (notably Value America), and they almost universally went out of business. Average coders cannot hit the high notes; you need to hit the high notes as a startup, because all of the middle ground is taken. In my case, I met my cofounder at Homecoming. We'd lived across the hall from me sophomore year, so I went over to talk to him and see what he was doing. Turned out he was working on a startup in a field I was interested in. He introduced me to the other cofounders afterwards (2 of which I already knew from college). I didn't actually join until several months later, when their initial choice for a technical founder quit, but he kept my name in mind.
danw 20y ago
I bet it's a social network ;) Luring coders is hard, the best way to do it is to be a coder yourself and put cool stuff out there for other to see. If you cant code, now would be a good time to learn. Not only can you start getting stuff done but when you do recruit coders you'll be able to communicate and understand each other better.
- timg 20y ago
  To be fair, if it wasn't social then it would hardly need to be on the net in the first place. Eg: Complex circuit analysis app - no, not on the net. Tool that helps people communicate and share knowledge - yes, on the net.
  - danw 20y ago
    Social Network always makes people think your trying to build a new MySpace. Can anyone suggest an alternative term to use when your site is social but a bit more niche or just has some social features?
    - Goladus 20y ago
      Start by explaining the niche and why users are going to go to the site to begin with. A networking site typically starts with almost zero nodes, so there has to be something to get the initial crowd there and buzzing. MySpace started by being a place for bands to showcase their music. The social network grew around the music. It's similar to the way an Opera House is a place to stage a show, but eventually turns into a place for people to go on dates, meet people, and show off. People will sometimes show up and barely notice the performance. MySpace is probably more like a collection of bars than an Opera house.
- nostrademons 20y ago
  Yah think? http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=11676 http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=11676
jaggederest 20y ago
Dropped you an email, not too far away. It all depends on what kind of impression you make on people, and what kind of idea it is.

by kyro 20y ago

bootload 20y ago

'... Further information about product details, etc. can be discussed upon further contact. ...' Do you have a demo? a blog? or something you can show? Build, talk create an audience and the long tail of the Internet will work for you. [0] Not having something, anything to show is counter to what's really going on at the moment in the web where there is an avalanche of interesting things going on. You have to market yourself [0], no not market, make a statement. Here are the words I use to motivate myself here ... '... Momentum builds on itself -- just start. Do whatever you can. Draw a user interface. Write a spec. Make something, anything, that people can see and touch and try. A prototype is worth ten thousand words. ...' [1] More releases (code, blogs, demos), less searching. This is not a criticism, just an observation. Remember we are in a boom so lots of really interesting things are happening. You have to compete and show your stuff by releasing and listening to your audience. Reference [0] It also tells you if are building crap that nobody wants to read, run or download. [1] Marc Hedland, 'Entrepreneurial Proverbs, Starting' http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/entrepreneurial_proverbs.html http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2006/03/entrepreneurial_proverbs.html

kyro 20y ago
Yeah, see, the issue is, I am trying to find coders so that I can make my idea tangible. It is only idea as of now, and I'm looking for skilled people to make this idea a reality, such as a demo. However, I am hesitant to just explain my idea and post it throughout the internet in hopes of attracting people for fear that someone can just run with the idea on their own. I mean, I am just the idea guy with creativity, they're the coder, they can live without me, but I can't live without them. How do you suggest I lure coders without exposing too much about the site's idea? How do I convey that good pay will probably not be the case, rather that he/she will be a partner in the startup, without turning away possible applicants?
- nostrademons 20y ago
  "I mean, I am just the idea guy with creativity, they're the coder, they can live without me, but I can't live without them." If that's the case, you really have a problem. Ideas are worth next to nothing. If you did manage to get one to join you, he'd likely leave at the first excuse. Why? Because you're contributing nothing. Find some way to be of value as the startup grows. Learn some domain knowledge about the market. Talk to potential prospects. There are many things a technical cofounder can't or doesn't want to do on his own, and if you do them, he'll have a reason to work with you. But if you're just contributing the initial idea, there's no reason for him to work with you.
  - kyro 20y ago
    Well, don't get me wrong, I think I would contribute a lot to the team. The reason for saying that was to outline my fear of luring in a coder by exposing my idea, and having such a person run off with it.
    - danw 20y ago
      If you can't trust the coder with your idea, how are you going to build a good team? 1) Be open with your idea 2) If you're not coding, show what you are contributing
    - nostrademons 20y ago
      Thing is - if your business will fail because somebody ran off with your idea, you have a problem. Because the moment it looks like you're onto something, somebody will run off with your idea. The only way to keep it secret is to never launch, and that means you don't have a business. It's more important to be able to move quickly once people copy your idea and stay ahead of them. That means finding a good coder, knowing a lot about the problem domain, and talking to lots of prospects. Basically, success is all about having many good ideas, one after another. The first one just gets you in the door - it's usually wrong anyways. It can't get you in the door if you never tell anyone though.
- bootload 20y ago

nostrademons 20y ago

Learn to program. ;-) Seriously, there are a bunch of reasons why coders turn down a startup: 1.) Not enough compensation. If you're paying them cash, you have to pay them market rates. For a bright but junior programmer, that's minimum $55-60K/year. salary in most of the tech hotspots. For someone experienced, figure at least $100k/year. If you're looking for hourly contractors, expect to pay at least $75/hour for anyone decent. If you give them equity - well, I personally would not join a startup for less than 20% equity, and I suspect many other technical founders have similar minimums. Actually, the only reason my current startup got away with so little (I'm getting 25%) is because it has 5 founders, and nobody else has more than 25%. 2.) Boring idea. Good programmers like to work on interesting problems. I joined my startup because it was in a problem domain that I waste a lot of time in anyways, I knew the area, and it'd let me try some cool stuff that I didn't know if I could do, but it'd be fun as hell to try. 3.) They don't trust you. Techies have a natural aversion to business-type people. Be straight with them, always. The second they think you're trying to bullshit them, they'll walk away. 4.) They don't think you add much value. Ultimately, it'll be the techie building the product. They need a reason why working with you beats building the product on your own. Usually, your best bet is to have a large personal network, or good people skills, or the ability to sell something. I don't think it's necessarily true that techies can't be good with people, but in my experience, I can't code and be good with people at the same time, so have a cofounder with people skills has been a big win for me. Remember, if you're founding a technical startup, you want the best coder you can find. He'll usually be young, because good experienced coders typically have families and will not work for stock, and you generally can't afford the $150K/year that they'll cost you. Don't try to skimp and get cheaper labor - lots of companies tried that in the dot-com bomb (notably Value America), and they almost universally went out of business. Average coders cannot hit the high notes; you need to hit the high notes as a startup, because all of the middle ground is taken. In my case, I met my cofounder at Homecoming. We'd lived across the hall from me sophomore year, so I went over to talk to him and see what he was doing. Turned out he was working on a startup in a field I was interested in. He introduced me to the other cofounders afterwards (2 of which I already knew from college). I didn't actually join until several months later, when their initial choice for a technical founder quit, but he kept my name in mind.

danw 20y ago

I bet it's a social network ;) Luring coders is hard, the best way to do it is to be a coder yourself and put cool stuff out there for other to see. If you cant code, now would be a good time to learn. Not only can you start getting stuff done but when you do recruit coders you'll be able to communicate and understand each other better.

timg 20y ago
To be fair, if it wasn't social then it would hardly need to be on the net in the first place. Eg: Complex circuit analysis app - no, not on the net. Tool that helps people communicate and share knowledge - yes, on the net.
- danw 20y ago
  Social Network always makes people think your trying to build a new MySpace. Can anyone suggest an alternative term to use when your site is social but a bit more niche or just has some social features?
  - Goladus 20y ago
    Start by explaining the niche and why users are going to go to the site to begin with. A networking site typically starts with almost zero nodes, so there has to be something to get the initial crowd there and buzzing. MySpace started by being a place for bands to showcase their music. The social network grew around the music. It's similar to the way an Opera House is a place to stage a show, but eventually turns into a place for people to go on dates, meet people, and show off. People will sometimes show up and barely notice the performance. MySpace is probably more like a collection of bars than an Opera house.
nostrademons 20y ago
Yah think? http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=11676 http://news.ycombinator.com/comments?id=11676

jaggederest 20y ago

Dropped you an email, not too far away. It all depends on what kind of impression you make on people, and what kind of idea it is.