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Can you point to evidence of any of this? Organizing people for a political cause is not a conspiratorial front, it's democracy. That's the fundamental means o
by hackuser 10y ago
Can you point to evidence of any of this?
Organizing people for a political cause is not a conspiratorial front, it's democracy. That's the fundamental means of participating in it.
- sdegutis 10y agoThey were trying to incite a moral revolution within the Catholic Church to conform to their own moral standards, but the Catholic Church is not a democracy, the morals and rules are not decided by the collective members of the Catholic Church, which is what makes this move downright unethical.
- JoeAltmaier 10y agoThe rules are pretty arbitrary, and decided by councils of Bishops though. Trying to influence them, trying to bring the church out of the dark ages, can be seen by some to be laudable.
- sdegutis 10y agoYou're right, some will think so, but only those who are not familiar with how Catholic doctrine works. The rules are not arbitrary. Things like the requirement to go to Mass on Sunday are man-made rules, but made by those with authority, and for very good well-thought-out reason. Regardless of whether you agree that their authority is valid, it's not arbitrary in the least. And others are immutable laws of existence, like the fact that it is an impossibility for women to be ordained. It's like wanting to change the quantity of 3 (not the symbol but the actual number) to be 4. It's just simply impossible. These laws are not arbitrary either, they're solidly based in logical reasoning of philosophy and theology.
- JoeAltmaier 10y agoWell. They used to be different, how about that? For instance priests being celibate was just a marketing move. Doesn't sound so immutable. History shows the 'laws' were as fungible as the situation required.
- JoeAltmaier 10y agohttp://content.usatoday.com/communities/religion/post/2009/05/67150989/1#.WC-M2qMzWYk http://content.usatoday.com/communities/religion/post/2009/0...
- sdegutis 10y agoYeah no that didn't happen.
- sdegutis 10y agoYou're confused. Celibacy for the priesthood is a rule made by the Church, not an immutable law. The fact that Baptism requires water is an immutable law.
- JoeAltmaier 10y agoConvenient. If it changes, its a rule. If it hasn't changed (for a while) its a law. Do I have that right?
- sdegutis 10y agoSure. Just like traffic laws. How convenient that we change the rules on how long to stop at a stop light, even though we can't change the speed of light. How convenient.
- hackuser 10y agoI respect your belief that these things are immutable, but the belief of many is that it's not true. These are rules of men, and if they wanted to change them then IME with many such immutable principles in many contexts, they suddenly find a way.
- sdegutis 10y agoSome of the things are legitimate rules, like the fact that priests need to be celibate. Other things are immutable principles that cannot be changed, like the fact that a Baptism requires the use of water (and not e.g. soda or orange juice) for it to be valid. The rules can be (and have been) changed, because the people in charge of them were given authority to institute and dissolve their own rules. The laws (in the sense of "laws of nature" rather than "laws of government") cannot be changed.
- hackuser 10y agoThat isn't evidence; it would be great if this discussion could be informed with it, because now all we have is more and more noise from more and more people, making it harder to get to the truth.