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The idea of CTR-controlled subreddits seems to be some form of mass hysteria. You will never see anyone post any evidence of the alleged CTR conspiracy, other t

The idea of CTR-controlled subreddits seems to be some form of mass hysteria. You will never see anyone post any evidence of the alleged CTR conspiracy, other than "people upvote news I don't like".

aaron-lebo 10y ago
Well, we know they have lots of money: https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00578997 https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00578997 And we know their mission: Correct The Record will invest more than $1 million into Barrier Breakers 2016 activities, including the more than tripling of its digital operation to engage in online messaging both for Secretary Clinton and to push back against attackers on social media platforms like Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, and Instagram. Barrier Breakers 2016 is a project of Correct The Record and the brainchild of David Brock, and the task force will be overseen by President of Correct The Record Brad Woodhouse and Digital Director Benjamin Fischbein. The task force staff’s backgrounds are as diverse as the community they will be engaging with and include former reporters, bloggers, public affairs specialists, designers, Ready for Hillary alumni, and Hillary super fans who have led groups similar to those with which the task force will organize. http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-correct-the-record/ http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-... It it just a conspiracy?
- fweespeech 10y ago
  1) $1 million doesn't go far to be honest. 2) People on Reddit and elsewhere noted pro-Trump videos with thousands of shares and a couple hundred views repeatedly. The only way that would happen is with bots since to trigger the share link on YouTube would be by viewing the video.
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    1) They've spent almost $10 million as of today. That was 6 million in late October and 1 million in March. It's just ramping up. 2) Yeah. Trump and Russia are doing it, too. It's just as nefarious there. Why is the standard defense of Clinton whataboutism?
    - grzm 10y ago
      Frankly, I see whataboutism being used regardless of political persuasion. (Is this a whataboutist response to whataboutism?) I think the only way to combat accusations of whataboutism is to rigorously apply the same standards whenever these things are brought up and do one's best to remove even the appearance of partisanship when making them. That can be tough to do. You know, stuff like this is actually where people can cross party lines and work together. Find an issue that should be non-partisan, set aside the other issues they may disagree on, and get something positive done. Edit to add: I didn't think this was controversial. If you down vote, I'd appreciate it if you would take the time to comment in the interest of communication.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - fweespeech 10y ago
      >2) Yeah. Trump and Russia are doing it, too. It's just as nefarious there. Why is the standard defense of Clinton whataboutism? If I stab you and you try to defend yourself, it is whataboutism now? Politics is about offense and defense. You can't fight a guy with bot networks pushing a false narrative without one of your own. You honestly think unilateral disarmament is the way to go?
  - Brakenshire 10y ago
    The YouTube thing isn't accurate because views tend to take a while to update. Having said, I think the above poster is correct that the idea of CTR taking over reddit as some settled reality is a sort of mass hysteria. It is something that is simply repeated over and over again until people accept it.
- cynicalkane 10y ago
  The CTR conspiracy theory claims that certain parts of Reddit are controlled by a CTR conspiracy, pro-Hillary commenters are usually "shills", pro-Hillary news is usually upvoted by bots and/or interns. What I asked for is evidence of this grand conspiracy. A PAC that does "online messaging" on certain platforms isn't evidence of this grand conspiracy. Everyone does online messaging. You're claiming something far wackier is being done by one specific group of people that you singled out.
  - aaron-lebo 10y ago
    You can find account after account like this on social media and you don't have to look very hard: https://www.reddit.com/user/wardsalud/submitted/ https://www.reddit.com/user/wardsalud/submitted/ There's a reason that account has been flagged for bot removal consistently. Their account consists of pro-Clinton articles every single day for months, lots of them upvoted and heavily-commented on. Yeah, there are some people who just don't have a life, but at some point you have to just start looking at evidence.
    - cynicalkane 10y ago
      All you did here was find a pro-Hillary commenter and say "oh they must be a shill". I'm not sure if you understand what evidence is.
      - aaron-lebo 10y ago
        A network of people manipulating social networks is not going to come out and reveal themselves. Though we do have Correct the Record coming out saying they are "messaging" and we know they've spent $10 million. Where do you think that money went? What do you think messaging is? How is it by definition not paid shilling? You just had to be on some of the reddits during the election season and you could literally see the tone change when the weekend would end. We know the Clinton campaign did engage in a strategy of manipulating media attention (see Wikileaks). We don't know CTR is manipulating social media but we have a lot of reasons to suspect so. At some point the burden of proof is on you.
belltaco 10y ago
I agree. Half the country supported Clinton so labeling anyone saying anything positive about her as a CTR shill got really old real fast. Then there was the narrative that the politics sub suddenly became more neutral after the election was over since CTR was no longer spending money, but if you check the sub now, it's still very anti-Trump, showing that the Sanders and Clinton support were organic.
mistermann 10y ago
Honestly did you frequent /r/politics before and after? CTR absolutely dominated that subreddit.....this new phenomenon where people won't believe anything unless there is "proof" is strange.
- frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
  Well Hillary supporters dominated the subreddit but I don't know why you think that means CTR had to be involved.
  - colordrops 10y ago
    Because it was their actual stated goal, and they even mention Reddit specifically. Why would they ignore Reddit and only target other social media platforms?
- epistasis 10y ago
  What's strange is that accusations are believed without any evidence. There are swarms of people that really dislike Trump, how are you distinguishing between the two on /r/politics? Long before the 2016 election even started, before CTR was ever started, Trump-like views would have been despised. So saying that CTR dominated /r/politics is not believable on its face. Unless there had been a sudden chance of character for /r/politics and at the same time a CTR swing back. Which would be easy to show. Accepting anything without proof is strange and foolish.
colordrops 10y ago
Take a look at this: http://i.imgur.com/fItaEy9.png http://i.imgur.com/fItaEy9.png If you were a regular user at /r/politics, you would have noticed that there were tons of new users with no history coming in and throwing ad hominem attacks at everyone who said anything about clinton. You would also notice that bots were doing keyword searches on certain negtive titles and automatically downvoting them the instant they were posted. The day after the election was over, this all ended. The Correct the Record PAC had 6 million dollars in funding specifically for spreading opinion on social media sites, of which Reddit is one of the most influential, being a source of long-form discussion. In fact, I believe CTR even directly mentioned that they target Reddit. Why wouldn't they, considering it was their stated mission? What on earth do you think politicians do with their media budgets? Only buy newspaper and TV ads? Do you think they just ignore the internet, which is the number one form of media now? That's just plain absurd.

The idea of CTR-controlled subreddits seems to be some form of mass hysteria. You will never see anyone post any evidence of the alleged CTR conspiracy, other than "people upvote news I don't like".

aaron-lebo 10y ago

Well, we know they have lots of money: https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00578997 https://www.opensecrets.org/pacs/lookup2.php?strID=C00578997 And we know their mission: Correct The Record will invest more than $1 million into Barrier Breakers 2016 activities, including the more than tripling of its digital operation to engage in online messaging both for Secretary Clinton and to push back against attackers on social media platforms like Twitter, Facebook, Reddit, and Instagram. Barrier Breakers 2016 is a project of Correct The Record and the brainchild of David Brock, and the task force will be overseen by President of Correct The Record Brad Woodhouse and Digital Director Benjamin Fischbein. The task force staff’s backgrounds are as diverse as the community they will be engaging with and include former reporters, bloggers, public affairs specialists, designers, Ready for Hillary alumni, and Hillary super fans who have led groups similar to those with which the task force will organize. http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-correct-the-record/ http://correctrecord.org/barrier-breakers-2016-a-project-of-... It it just a conspiracy?

fweespeech 10y ago
1) $1 million doesn't go far to be honest. 2) People on Reddit and elsewhere noted pro-Trump videos with thousands of shares and a couple hundred views repeatedly. The only way that would happen is with bots since to trigger the share link on YouTube would be by viewing the video.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  1) They've spent almost $10 million as of today. That was 6 million in late October and 1 million in March. It's just ramping up. 2) Yeah. Trump and Russia are doing it, too. It's just as nefarious there. Why is the standard defense of Clinton whataboutism?
  - grzm 10y ago
    Frankly, I see whataboutism being used regardless of political persuasion. (Is this a whataboutist response to whataboutism?) I think the only way to combat accusations of whataboutism is to rigorously apply the same standards whenever these things are brought up and do one's best to remove even the appearance of partisanship when making them. That can be tough to do. You know, stuff like this is actually where people can cross party lines and work together. Find an issue that should be non-partisan, set aside the other issues they may disagree on, and get something positive done. Edit to add: I didn't think this was controversial. If you down vote, I'd appreciate it if you would take the time to comment in the interest of communication.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - fweespeech 10y ago
    >2) Yeah. Trump and Russia are doing it, too. It's just as nefarious there. Why is the standard defense of Clinton whataboutism? If I stab you and you try to defend yourself, it is whataboutism now? Politics is about offense and defense. You can't fight a guy with bot networks pushing a false narrative without one of your own. You honestly think unilateral disarmament is the way to go?
- Brakenshire 10y ago
  The YouTube thing isn't accurate because views tend to take a while to update. Having said, I think the above poster is correct that the idea of CTR taking over reddit as some settled reality is a sort of mass hysteria. It is something that is simply repeated over and over again until people accept it.
cynicalkane 10y ago
The CTR conspiracy theory claims that certain parts of Reddit are controlled by a CTR conspiracy, pro-Hillary commenters are usually "shills", pro-Hillary news is usually upvoted by bots and/or interns. What I asked for is evidence of this grand conspiracy. A PAC that does "online messaging" on certain platforms isn't evidence of this grand conspiracy. Everyone does online messaging. You're claiming something far wackier is being done by one specific group of people that you singled out.
- aaron-lebo 10y ago
  You can find account after account like this on social media and you don't have to look very hard: https://www.reddit.com/user/wardsalud/submitted/ https://www.reddit.com/user/wardsalud/submitted/ There's a reason that account has been flagged for bot removal consistently. Their account consists of pro-Clinton articles every single day for months, lots of them upvoted and heavily-commented on. Yeah, there are some people who just don't have a life, but at some point you have to just start looking at evidence.
  - cynicalkane 10y ago
    All you did here was find a pro-Hillary commenter and say "oh they must be a shill". I'm not sure if you understand what evidence is.
    - aaron-lebo 10y ago
      A network of people manipulating social networks is not going to come out and reveal themselves. Though we do have Correct the Record coming out saying they are "messaging" and we know they've spent $10 million. Where do you think that money went? What do you think messaging is? How is it by definition not paid shilling? You just had to be on some of the reddits during the election season and you could literally see the tone change when the weekend would end. We know the Clinton campaign did engage in a strategy of manipulating media attention (see Wikileaks). We don't know CTR is manipulating social media but we have a lot of reasons to suspect so. At some point the burden of proof is on you.

belltaco 10y ago

I agree. Half the country supported Clinton so labeling anyone saying anything positive about her as a CTR shill got really old real fast. Then there was the narrative that the politics sub suddenly became more neutral after the election was over since CTR was no longer spending money, but if you check the sub now, it's still very anti-Trump, showing that the Sanders and Clinton support were organic.

mistermann 10y ago

Honestly did you frequent /r/politics before and after? CTR absolutely dominated that subreddit.....this new phenomenon where people won't believe anything unless there is "proof" is strange.

frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
Well Hillary supporters dominated the subreddit but I don't know why you think that means CTR had to be involved.
- colordrops 10y ago
  Because it was their actual stated goal, and they even mention Reddit specifically. Why would they ignore Reddit and only target other social media platforms?
epistasis 10y ago
What's strange is that accusations are believed without any evidence. There are swarms of people that really dislike Trump, how are you distinguishing between the two on /r/politics? Long before the 2016 election even started, before CTR was ever started, Trump-like views would have been despised. So saying that CTR dominated /r/politics is not believable on its face. Unless there had been a sudden chance of character for /r/politics and at the same time a CTR swing back. Which would be easy to show. Accepting anything without proof is strange and foolish.

colordrops 10y ago

Take a look at this: http://i.imgur.com/fItaEy9.png http://i.imgur.com/fItaEy9.png If you were a regular user at /r/politics, you would have noticed that there were tons of new users with no history coming in and throwing ad hominem attacks at everyone who said anything about clinton. You would also notice that bots were doing keyword searches on certain negtive titles and automatically downvoting them the instant they were posted. The day after the election was over, this all ended. The Correct the Record PAC had 6 million dollars in funding specifically for spreading opinion on social media sites, of which Reddit is one of the most influential, being a source of long-form discussion. In fact, I believe CTR even directly mentioned that they target Reddit. Why wouldn't they, considering it was their stated mission? What on earth do you think politicians do with their media budgets? Only buy newspaper and TV ads? Do you think they just ignore the internet, which is the number one form of media now? That's just plain absurd.