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I've started this process myself (an experienced American web developer). One advantage I might have here over others is my wife is a dual-citizen (France/US).

I've started this process myself (an experienced American web developer). One advantage I might have here over others is my wife is a dual-citizen (France/US). The one offer I received is about half what I make now. I turned it down hoping to hold out for something better. I've gathered that one's salary will very wildly based on the country (Switzerland seems to be the highest). The loss of salary has been disappointing and something that I'm willing to sacrifice (there are other advantages that offset it, like work/life balance) but not so much that I'm making less than an entry level salary in the US. This site looks promising so thanks for sharing. If there are any more sites like this, or recruiters that specialize in this kind of thing, I'd love to know.

david-given 10y ago
Do bear in mind the different costs of living. My company relocated me from the UK to Switzerland; my salary rose significantly --- but it doesn't make me better off, because I'm spending more. Depending where you go, it's quite possible that a lower gross salary could end up being quite reasonable simply because costs are lower. (Although that's not going to be true in Switzerland.)
pi-err 10y ago
Overall, wages in France will be lower in software - with important things to keep in mind: - health and education are dirt cheap. This is phenomenal for a family (even compared to the the U.K.). The downside is you have less control on your kids/health. - roles and culture in most companies are still stuck in the 90s. Push and evangelize on what/how you do and you'll get fitter offers - you'll work less. More holidays, shorter work weeks. Life in Paris is stressfull so you'll need that. A nice bonus is that most Europe cities are a short flight away, great for week ends. Lyon/Munich/Amsterdam/Barcelona are all excellent places too (better than Paris and even London in many respects) Hopefully we get at least some of you guys to move over here and push for a better community : )
djsumdog 10y ago
Last year I was in Europe on a self-funded sabbatical. I was backpacking around the world for about 11 months. I had a few interviews in Germany and The Netherlands that didn't work out, but one thing I did notice is that many European countries don't have the huge income wage gap for software engineers. An engineer that might go for $150k in Chicago or Seattle would be about 50h ~ 55k euro in Berlin. It works it self out with lower costs for groceries, better public transportation, reasonable housing prices, etc. The loss of salary you mention might seem bad for you, but it's part of having generally lower income inequality. The wage gaps in America (a lot of it brought on by the high demand and cost of housing and our poor transportation networks) are not good for people without tech jobs in cities that are dominated by them.
- justin66 10y ago
  > An engineer that might go for $150k in Chicago or Seattle would be about 50h ~ 55k euro in Berlin. Given the current exchange rate, that's a shocking gap between the US and Europe. People will happily sit in some traffic to make 3x as much.
  - taurath 10y ago
    You can live in the very core of berlin for around EU1500/mo, and much cheaper in places only a few blocks away from the subway that will get you to work in 1/4 the time. Food costs are about 50% less than in the US, for better quality. You can travel to any other city and other countries by fairly inexpensive train or cheap flights. You can spend 1600 on room/utilities, 400 on food, 100 on transportation and have 1600euros a month for whatever you want at that salary, with no worries about your health or looking after your kids. But you probably won't have 4000 square foot house to store your 4 cars in.
    - justin66 10y ago
      > But you probably won't have 4000 square foot house to store your 4 cars in. Or more generally, you'll just have a whole heck of a lot less money, which was the point. I wonder if djsumdog was exaggerating, though, by failing to compare like against like. The numbers he quoted for US engineers represent the pretty high end. Are there really engineers in Berlin making a lot less than 50k Euros/year?
      - Rainbooow 10y ago
        Belgian speaking here. Have 4 years of experience, my first salary was around 40k. Current salary is 46k, and I am moving next month to Paris in a top tech company (reputed to pay very well there), that will offer me 59k + 14k (average bonus, etc.). And I consider myself on the high end of the spectrum, so yeah, I am pretty sure there is a lot of (young) engineers making less than 50k in Berlin.
        10y ago
ma2rten 10y ago
You have to compare based on cost of living.
acedinlowball 10y ago
So you want to get paid like a highly-paid American engineer, but have significantly reduced cost of living and a better work/life balance? Let me know how that works out for you. Might have to shed the entitlement.

david-given 10y ago

Do bear in mind the different costs of living. My company relocated me from the UK to Switzerland; my salary rose significantly --- but it doesn't make me better off, because I'm spending more. Depending where you go, it's quite possible that a lower gross salary could end up being quite reasonable simply because costs are lower. (Although that's not going to be true in Switzerland.)

pi-err 10y ago

Overall, wages in France will be lower in software - with important things to keep in mind: - health and education are dirt cheap. This is phenomenal for a family (even compared to the the U.K.). The downside is you have less control on your kids/health. - roles and culture in most companies are still stuck in the 90s. Push and evangelize on what/how you do and you'll get fitter offers - you'll work less. More holidays, shorter work weeks. Life in Paris is stressfull so you'll need that. A nice bonus is that most Europe cities are a short flight away, great for week ends. Lyon/Munich/Amsterdam/Barcelona are all excellent places too (better than Paris and even London in many respects) Hopefully we get at least some of you guys to move over here and push for a better community : )

djsumdog 10y ago

Last year I was in Europe on a self-funded sabbatical. I was backpacking around the world for about 11 months. I had a few interviews in Germany and The Netherlands that didn't work out, but one thing I did notice is that many European countries don't have the huge income wage gap for software engineers. An engineer that might go for $150k in Chicago or Seattle would be about 50h ~ 55k euro in Berlin. It works it self out with lower costs for groceries, better public transportation, reasonable housing prices, etc. The loss of salary you mention might seem bad for you, but it's part of having generally lower income inequality. The wage gaps in America (a lot of it brought on by the high demand and cost of housing and our poor transportation networks) are not good for people without tech jobs in cities that are dominated by them.

justin66 10y ago
> An engineer that might go for $150k in Chicago or Seattle would be about 50h ~ 55k euro in Berlin. Given the current exchange rate, that's a shocking gap between the US and Europe. People will happily sit in some traffic to make 3x as much.
- taurath 10y ago
  You can live in the very core of berlin for around EU1500/mo, and much cheaper in places only a few blocks away from the subway that will get you to work in 1/4 the time. Food costs are about 50% less than in the US, for better quality. You can travel to any other city and other countries by fairly inexpensive train or cheap flights. You can spend 1600 on room/utilities, 400 on food, 100 on transportation and have 1600euros a month for whatever you want at that salary, with no worries about your health or looking after your kids. But you probably won't have 4000 square foot house to store your 4 cars in.
  - justin66 10y ago
    > But you probably won't have 4000 square foot house to store your 4 cars in. Or more generally, you'll just have a whole heck of a lot less money, which was the point. I wonder if djsumdog was exaggerating, though, by failing to compare like against like. The numbers he quoted for US engineers represent the pretty high end. Are there really engineers in Berlin making a lot less than 50k Euros/year?
    - Rainbooow 10y ago
      Belgian speaking here. Have 4 years of experience, my first salary was around 40k. Current salary is 46k, and I am moving next month to Paris in a top tech company (reputed to pay very well there), that will offer me 59k + 14k (average bonus, etc.). And I consider myself on the high end of the spectrum, so yeah, I am pretty sure there is a lot of (young) engineers making less than 50k in Berlin.
      - 10y ago

ma2rten 10y ago

You have to compare based on cost of living.

acedinlowball 10y ago

So you want to get paid like a highly-paid American engineer, but have significantly reduced cost of living and a better work/life balance? Let me know how that works out for you. Might have to shed the entitlement.