5 ms·

I think if there was a massive attack that infected a trusting trust attack on every computer on the planet, we'd just have to start from scratch

pavel_lishin 10y ago
Super-scratch. We'd have to trash every processor manufacturing plant on the planet; Every single one almost certainly uses computer-controlled machinery working from computer-stored plans. This would be a fun novel to read. An alien intelligence that can only act at a distance infects our computer systems, and we have to recover. A sort of post-apocalyptic scenario, except without the magic "engines don't work, but matches do" flavor. I hope Neal Stephenson is bored and looking for something to write.
- pjc50 10y ago
  "Three-body problem" has an interesting variant on this: an alien intelligence which can sabotage physics experiments, thereby preventing humanity from exceeding a particular level of development.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    I was definitely thinking of that when typing that out, although I think that the particular way the antagonists did this in Three Body Problem was like using a jet fighter to shield your infantry from the rain.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      Indeed they could have done much more "fun" stuff with the tool they used. It seems that they lacked the mentality of human trolls. (BTW. I just binge-read the entire trilogy within the past two weeks, thanks to HN recommendations of the first book. And I have to say, it's great sci-fi, totally worth the time it takes to read it.)
      - pavel_lishin 10y ago
        I read the first one, and it was incredibly interesting, but mostly from the cultural and historical perspectives. The "magic" bit I referenced seemed ... overpowered and yet underused. It's incredibly difficult to imagine an intelligence that can come up with that, but not extrapolate any further. Potential spoiler alert: Using that particular plot device to fool scientists into believing the laws of physics weren't constant struck me as ludicrous. The part where physicists start committing suicide instead of seeing this as the start of a revolution in their understanding of the universe was almost plausible by comparison. I need to read the second two, but I heard that the translations aren't as good :/
        pjc50 10y ago
        Taking the plot device entirely literally misses the point of the book somewhat; it's so highly metaphorical and so much of it is told through the "VR" dream sequence exposition. It's really a book about the question: how do we know what we know? Specifically, how do we find truth when powerful forces have devoted themselves to obfuscating it for us? In other words, the "cultural revolution" in China. And by extension, the present day wǔmáo dǎng era.
        pavel_lishin 10y ago
        I haven't read the sequels, but the Sophon bit seemed pretty explicitly literal. How can I not read that part literally? Either the Sophons have the power ascribed, or the plot is nonsense.
        TeMPOraL 10y ago
        Obviously it is literal, it has to be - it's relevant to the object-level plot both in the first book and in the latter two. Whether or not it has layers of additional "meta" meaning associated with it, that's another topic. Though I'm not sure about the indirect references to various political events that people seek in the story - the author himself wrote explicitly in the afterword for American readers that he is not writing sci-fi to explore contemporary issues in different settings.
    - titanomachy 10y ago
      > using a jet fighter to shield your infantry from the rain Great imagery, and similar to the thoughts I had when reading that series. They can imprint arbitrary images on human retinas, you'd think they could at least disable computers if not suborn our networks completely. I suppose that their... mental handicap could prevent them from coming up with the idea of our computers "lie" to us, but that seems a little flimsy.
      - pavel_lishin 10y ago
        I must be forgetting something, or something is in the sequels - what mental handicap? And I thought the entire point of the Sophons was to have the computers lie to us. (Versus, say, blocking out all light from the sun and freezing us to death. Or reflecting more and burning us alive. Or slicing through every human's spinal cord. Or detonating nuclear devices. Or whatever.)
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  > post-apocalyptic scenario, except without the magic "engines don't work, but matches do" flavor I don't know if you're referring to "Revolutions" TV series here, but I've seen exactly those accusations of "magic" leveled against the show in the past, on HN. I decided to watch it anyway, and... (spoiler alert) ...by the half of the first season it's becoming slowly revealed that there's no magic that happens to disable only electronics and combustion engines - it's omnipresent advanced nanotech explicitly designed to do just that.
  - pavel_lishin 10y ago
    That was probably what I was thinking about, though I didn't remember the name. And we all know what Clarke said about advanced tech...
  - kazagistar 10y ago
    Actually, I instantly thought of Dies The Fire, a novel with the same concept.

pavel_lishin 10y ago

Super-scratch. We'd have to trash every processor manufacturing plant on the planet; Every single one almost certainly uses computer-controlled machinery working from computer-stored plans. This would be a fun novel to read. An alien intelligence that can only act at a distance infects our computer systems, and we have to recover. A sort of post-apocalyptic scenario, except without the magic "engines don't work, but matches do" flavor. I hope Neal Stephenson is bored and looking for something to write.

pjc50 10y ago
"Three-body problem" has an interesting variant on this: an alien intelligence which can sabotage physics experiments, thereby preventing humanity from exceeding a particular level of development.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  I was definitely thinking of that when typing that out, although I think that the particular way the antagonists did this in Three Body Problem was like using a jet fighter to shield your infantry from the rain.
  - TeMPOraL 10y ago
    Indeed they could have done much more "fun" stuff with the tool they used. It seems that they lacked the mentality of human trolls. (BTW. I just binge-read the entire trilogy within the past two weeks, thanks to HN recommendations of the first book. And I have to say, it's great sci-fi, totally worth the time it takes to read it.)
    - pavel_lishin 10y ago
      I read the first one, and it was incredibly interesting, but mostly from the cultural and historical perspectives. The "magic" bit I referenced seemed ... overpowered and yet underused. It's incredibly difficult to imagine an intelligence that can come up with that, but not extrapolate any further. Potential spoiler alert: Using that particular plot device to fool scientists into believing the laws of physics weren't constant struck me as ludicrous. The part where physicists start committing suicide instead of seeing this as the start of a revolution in their understanding of the universe was almost plausible by comparison. I need to read the second two, but I heard that the translations aren't as good :/
      - pjc50 10y ago
        Taking the plot device entirely literally misses the point of the book somewhat; it's so highly metaphorical and so much of it is told through the "VR" dream sequence exposition. It's really a book about the question: how do we know what we know? Specifically, how do we find truth when powerful forces have devoted themselves to obfuscating it for us? In other words, the "cultural revolution" in China. And by extension, the present day wǔmáo dǎng era.
        pavel_lishin 10y ago
        I haven't read the sequels, but the Sophon bit seemed pretty explicitly literal. How can I not read that part literally? Either the Sophons have the power ascribed, or the plot is nonsense.
        TeMPOraL 10y ago
        Obviously it is literal, it has to be - it's relevant to the object-level plot both in the first book and in the latter two. Whether or not it has layers of additional "meta" meaning associated with it, that's another topic. Though I'm not sure about the indirect references to various political events that people seek in the story - the author himself wrote explicitly in the afterword for American readers that he is not writing sci-fi to explore contemporary issues in different settings.
  - titanomachy 10y ago
    > using a jet fighter to shield your infantry from the rain Great imagery, and similar to the thoughts I had when reading that series. They can imprint arbitrary images on human retinas, you'd think they could at least disable computers if not suborn our networks completely. I suppose that their... mental handicap could prevent them from coming up with the idea of our computers "lie" to us, but that seems a little flimsy.
    - pavel_lishin 10y ago
      I must be forgetting something, or something is in the sequels - what mental handicap? And I thought the entire point of the Sophons was to have the computers lie to us. (Versus, say, blocking out all light from the sun and freezing us to death. Or reflecting more and burning us alive. Or slicing through every human's spinal cord. Or detonating nuclear devices. Or whatever.)
TeMPOraL 10y ago
> post-apocalyptic scenario, except without the magic "engines don't work, but matches do" flavor I don't know if you're referring to "Revolutions" TV series here, but I've seen exactly those accusations of "magic" leveled against the show in the past, on HN. I decided to watch it anyway, and... (spoiler alert) ...by the half of the first season it's becoming slowly revealed that there's no magic that happens to disable only electronics and combustion engines - it's omnipresent advanced nanotech explicitly designed to do just that.
- pavel_lishin 10y ago
  That was probably what I was thinking about, though I didn't remember the name. And we all know what Clarke said about advanced tech...
- kazagistar 10y ago
  Actually, I instantly thought of Dies The Fire, a novel with the same concept.