7 ms·

I'm not sure if these are actually layoffs. In the German news it sounded more like nobody is getting fired - so perhaps they are simply not replacing workers w

by quonn 10y ago

I'm not sure if these are actually layoffs. In the German news it sounded more like nobody is getting fired - so perhaps they are simply not replacing workers who retire?

selimthegrim 10y ago
Correct, just attrition.
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  This is so much better - instead of people chasing latest management gossip, constantly looking over their shoulder and looking for other jobs, we don't hire unless it's necessary (ie regulatory requirements). Compared to having 2-3 random firing rounds per year when it was semi-random (even the best of the team were let go because they didn't have currently running long term project), morale is much higher (random meant you come in the morning like every other day, suddenly during day there is interview with your line manager and HR, then you have 5 mins to take your stuff from desk and are escorted by security out, and that's it)
  - tomarr 10y ago
    Better unless you are an early career worker looking for a job.
  - cgvgffyv 10y ago
    Christ, what country are you in?
    - logfromblammo 10y ago
      Sounds like the US to me. Did I ever tell you about the time when I came in to work on Friday and found out that the next Wednesday would be the last day of work for everybody in the office? Sorry, folks, no severance either. If you have vacation days left, you'll be paid for those as you use them. Otherwise, each departing employee will be provided with 60% of a tissue to wipe away most of their tears.
adrianN 10y ago
Also, 30k over 10 years or so is not that much if you employ 600k.
elcapitan 10y ago
Yes, they are going to give older workers good conditions for early retirement and will not replace those exact positions. The work council has agreed to the conditions. Also, they are creating 9k new jobs in e-mobility.
- lostboys67 10y ago
  Trouble is the "good ones" take the redundancy in a lot of cases
  - jgalt212 10y ago
    yes, probably b/c the good ones know they can find employment elsewhere without too much difficulty.
    - radiorental 10y ago
      Not that simple. Depends on the deal but taking retirement and redundancy are very different things. This looks like a retirement package which means they can't take a new job, if I understand it correctly. Having faced layoff in both Europe and US. The laws are a world apart.
      - walshemj 10y ago
        Cant take a new job! I cant believe that it violates so many eu rules and the employees human rights. Of course it might not make sense if you are near state retirement age. Of course this is outwith things like medical retirement ie you have a terminal illness
        fgonzag 10y ago
        Why would it violate anything? When you retire, you are basically stating that you are unfit or unwilling to continue working, and as such the company you have worked for all this time should continue to pay your living expenses. Getting a new job basically says that you can and want to continue working.
spatulon 10y ago
My experience working for a German company is that there's a strong cultural distaste for laying off employees. I've seen major projects get shut down, and I saw huge cost-saving measures after the 2008 downturn, but there was never any question of letting people go. People got moved to other projects, or had enforced, unpaid vacations, but no layoffs. I suspect it's driven by strong employee protections in German law.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  Huh? Enforced, unpaid vacation == layoff doesn't it? "You still work here but won't be paid"
  - jdavis703 10y ago
    I assume it's like we need to save 1/12 of employment costs, so everyone is forced to take one month vacation.
    - spatulon 10y ago
      Exactly. The company needed to save a ton of money in 2009, so, instead of laying anyone off, they gave everyone an extra 4 weeks of vacation and an equivalent cut in their salary for the year.
      - st3v3r 10y ago
        It still amounts to punishing the workers for the failings of management.
        zip1234 10y ago
        Not necessarily. Perhaps there actually are too many workers for the amount of work there is.
        st3v3r 10y ago
lostboys67 10y ago
It will probably be foreign subsidiaries who get the chop - German companies who are all into codetermination at home will hire American union busters to attack unions in other countries
- germanier 10y ago
  All of those jobs are supposed to be cut by socially acceptable means (e.g. by early or partial retirement). 23k of those 30k of cut jobs are supposed to be in Germany. (But in the past Volkswagen participated in union busting in foreign plants.)

by quonn 10y ago

I'm not sure if these are actually layoffs. In the German news it sounded more like nobody is getting fired - so perhaps they are simply not replacing workers who retire?

selimthegrim 10y ago

Correct, just attrition.

saiya-jin 10y ago
This is so much better - instead of people chasing latest management gossip, constantly looking over their shoulder and looking for other jobs, we don't hire unless it's necessary (ie regulatory requirements). Compared to having 2-3 random firing rounds per year when it was semi-random (even the best of the team were let go because they didn't have currently running long term project), morale is much higher (random meant you come in the morning like every other day, suddenly during day there is interview with your line manager and HR, then you have 5 mins to take your stuff from desk and are escorted by security out, and that's it)
- tomarr 10y ago
  Better unless you are an early career worker looking for a job.
- cgvgffyv 10y ago
  Christ, what country are you in?
  - logfromblammo 10y ago
    Sounds like the US to me. Did I ever tell you about the time when I came in to work on Friday and found out that the next Wednesday would be the last day of work for everybody in the office? Sorry, folks, no severance either. If you have vacation days left, you'll be paid for those as you use them. Otherwise, each departing employee will be provided with 60% of a tissue to wipe away most of their tears.

adrianN 10y ago

Also, 30k over 10 years or so is not that much if you employ 600k.

elcapitan 10y ago

Yes, they are going to give older workers good conditions for early retirement and will not replace those exact positions. The work council has agreed to the conditions. Also, they are creating 9k new jobs in e-mobility.

lostboys67 10y ago
Trouble is the "good ones" take the redundancy in a lot of cases
- jgalt212 10y ago
  yes, probably b/c the good ones know they can find employment elsewhere without too much difficulty.
  - radiorental 10y ago
    Not that simple. Depends on the deal but taking retirement and redundancy are very different things. This looks like a retirement package which means they can't take a new job, if I understand it correctly. Having faced layoff in both Europe and US. The laws are a world apart.
    - walshemj 10y ago
      Cant take a new job! I cant believe that it violates so many eu rules and the employees human rights. Of course it might not make sense if you are near state retirement age. Of course this is outwith things like medical retirement ie you have a terminal illness
      - fgonzag 10y ago
        Why would it violate anything? When you retire, you are basically stating that you are unfit or unwilling to continue working, and as such the company you have worked for all this time should continue to pay your living expenses. Getting a new job basically says that you can and want to continue working.

spatulon 10y ago

My experience working for a German company is that there's a strong cultural distaste for laying off employees. I've seen major projects get shut down, and I saw huge cost-saving measures after the 2008 downturn, but there was never any question of letting people go. People got moved to other projects, or had enforced, unpaid vacations, but no layoffs. I suspect it's driven by strong employee protections in German law.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Huh? Enforced, unpaid vacation == layoff doesn't it? "You still work here but won't be paid"
- jdavis703 10y ago
  I assume it's like we need to save 1/12 of employment costs, so everyone is forced to take one month vacation.
  - spatulon 10y ago
    Exactly. The company needed to save a ton of money in 2009, so, instead of laying anyone off, they gave everyone an extra 4 weeks of vacation and an equivalent cut in their salary for the year.
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      It still amounts to punishing the workers for the failings of management.
      - zip1234 10y ago
        Not necessarily. Perhaps there actually are too many workers for the amount of work there is.
        st3v3r 10y ago

lostboys67 10y ago

It will probably be foreign subsidiaries who get the chop - German companies who are all into codetermination at home will hire American union busters to attack unions in other countries

germanier 10y ago
All of those jobs are supposed to be cut by socially acceptable means (e.g. by early or partial retirement). 23k of those 30k of cut jobs are supposed to be in Germany. (But in the past Volkswagen participated in union busting in foreign plants.)