5 ms·

L4 is popular in embedded space? Can you provide some examples?

by pawadu 10y ago

minipci1321 10y ago
Not sure if the parent meant this specifically, but the commercial version of L4 was ported to ARM to host Android, and was then used in some commercial phones -- deployed in millions says Internet: http://linuxfr.org/nodes/88229/comments/1291183 http://linuxfr.org/nodes/88229/comments/1291183
krylon 10y ago
Wikipedia says: "L4 is widely deployed. One variant, OKL4 from Open Kernel Labs, shipped in billions of mobile devices.", links to a press announcement: https://web.archive.org/web/20120211210405/http://www.ok-labs.com/releases/release/ok-labs-software-surpasses-milestone-of-1.5-billion-mobile-device-shipments https://web.archive.org/web/20120211210405/http://www.ok-lab... Okay, if I look more closely, OKL4 seems to be used as a hypervisor to host regular kernels. I am not sure how much that buys one, really, from a security point of view. Also, the same Wikipedia article states: "Apple mobile application processors beginning with the A7 contain a Secure Enclave coprocessor running an L4 operating system. This implies that L4 is now shipping on all iOS devices, the total shipment of which is estimated at 310 million for the year 2015."
qznc 10y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family#Commercial_deployment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family#Commerci... > OKL4 shipments exceeded 1.5 billion in early 2012, mostly on Qualcomm wireless modem chips. Other deployments include automotive infotainment systems. > Apple mobile application processors beginning with the A7 contain a Secure Enclave coprocessor running an L4 operating system. This implies that L4 is now shipping on all iOS devices, the total shipment of which is estimated at 310 million for the year 2015.
- pawadu 10y ago
  So we have 2-3 very niche deployments. Does it really make L4 popular in embedded systems? Also, OKL4, specially the version claimed to run on qualcomm is very different from the original L4 (I say claimed since multiple attempts to reverse engineer qualcomm baseband firmware showed no traces of OKL4) edit: if you think this is incorrect please provide a valid counterpoint. downvoting a post this way to hide its presence is not a valid response.
  - justin66 10y ago
    It runs on billions of baseband processors. It's popular by any sane definition of the word.
    - monocasa 10y ago
      Following that logic, iOS is also popular in the embedded space.
      - PeCaN 10y ago
        That's not the embedded space; an iPhone is a full (small) computer. iOS is quite popular, but embedded ≠ “runs on ARM”.
        qznc 10y ago
        Things like a cash register or a media player are also considered "embedded systems", even if they use x86 CPUs. Embedded ≠ incomplete computer.
  - nickpsecurity 10y ago
    It will also help you to remember that embedded space is extremely fragmented with many RTOS's & non-RTOS's to choose from. Developers also do custom stuff or just run on bare metal with runtimes. It's an interesting field due to diversity of solutions they use. That one product hits a billion installs with a bunch of vendors in a space that exclusively use Win Mobile, Symbian, and Android is significant. It's popularity was just relative, though. In mobile phones, one microkernel was more popular than others. vxWorks and QNX were more popular in embedded space in general than L4's. I don't know the exact distribution.

L4 is popular in embedded space? Can you provide some examples?

by pawadu 10y ago

L4 is popular in embedded space? Can you provide some examples?

Not sure if the parent meant this specifically, but the commercial version of L4 was ported to ARM to host Android, and was then used in some commercial phones -- deployed in millions says Internet: http://linuxfr.org/nodes/88229/comments/1291183 http://linuxfr.org/nodes/88229/comments/1291183

krylon 10y ago

Wikipedia says: "L4 is widely deployed. One variant, OKL4 from Open Kernel Labs, shipped in billions of mobile devices.", links to a press announcement: https://web.archive.org/web/20120211210405/http://www.ok-labs.com/releases/release/ok-labs-software-surpasses-milestone-of-1.5-billion-mobile-device-shipments https://web.archive.org/web/20120211210405/http://www.ok-lab... Okay, if I look more closely, OKL4 seems to be used as a hypervisor to host regular kernels. I am not sure how much that buys one, really, from a security point of view. Also, the same Wikipedia article states: "Apple mobile application processors beginning with the A7 contain a Secure Enclave coprocessor running an L4 operating system. This implies that L4 is now shipping on all iOS devices, the total shipment of which is estimated at 310 million for the year 2015."

qznc 10y ago

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family#Commercial_deployment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L4_microkernel_family#Commerci... > OKL4 shipments exceeded 1.5 billion in early 2012, mostly on Qualcomm wireless modem chips. Other deployments include automotive infotainment systems. > Apple mobile application processors beginning with the A7 contain a Secure Enclave coprocessor running an L4 operating system. This implies that L4 is now shipping on all iOS devices, the total shipment of which is estimated at 310 million for the year 2015.

pawadu 10y ago
So we have 2-3 very niche deployments. Does it really make L4 popular in embedded systems? Also, OKL4, specially the version claimed to run on qualcomm is very different from the original L4 (I say claimed since multiple attempts to reverse engineer qualcomm baseband firmware showed no traces of OKL4) edit: if you think this is incorrect please provide a valid counterpoint. downvoting a post this way to hide its presence is not a valid response.
- justin66 10y ago
  It runs on billions of baseband processors. It's popular by any sane definition of the word.
  - monocasa 10y ago
    Following that logic, iOS is also popular in the embedded space.
    - PeCaN 10y ago
      That's not the embedded space; an iPhone is a full (small) computer. iOS is quite popular, but embedded ≠ “runs on ARM”.
      - qznc 10y ago
        Things like a cash register or a media player are also considered "embedded systems", even if they use x86 CPUs. Embedded ≠ incomplete computer.
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  It will also help you to remember that embedded space is extremely fragmented with many RTOS's & non-RTOS's to choose from. Developers also do custom stuff or just run on bare metal with runtimes. It's an interesting field due to diversity of solutions they use. That one product hits a billion installs with a bunch of vendors in a space that exclusively use Win Mobile, Symbian, and Android is significant. It's popularity was just relative, though. In mobile phones, one microkernel was more popular than others. vxWorks and QNX were more popular in embedded space in general than L4's. I don't know the exact distribution.