4 ms·

Why write off the possibility of foreign influence in our elections? Is the NSA in on the conspiracy too? I also think the story that all these people who vote

by rhcom 10y ago

Why write off the possibility of foreign influence in our elections? Is the NSA in on the conspiracy too? I also think the story that all these people who voted for Obama switched to Trump isn't true. The people who voted for Obama didn't even vote this election [1]. [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/omribenshahar/2016/11/17/the-non-voters-who-decided-the-election-trump-won-because-of-lower-democratic-turnout/#2325965240a1 http://www.forbes.com/sites/omribenshahar/2016/11/17/the-non...

rdtsc 10y ago
I don't know, I find it hard to be believe that with Trump getting what over 300 electoral college votes and Hillary having the worst Democratic performance in 28 years, that people who voted for Obama just simply didn't show up to vote or voted for Hillary. Washington Post (if you trust it, I don't much, but got nothing else here) says this --- Nearly 1 in 5 Trump voters say they approve of Obama's job performance. That would mean about 8 percent (note: large margin of error) of Americans went to the polls on Election Day liking what Obama was producing as president but deciding to vote for the other party's unpopular nominee anyway. --- They are quoting Schar School of Policy and Government at George Mason University there
- prostoalex 10y ago
  > I find it hard to be believe that with Trump getting what over 300 electoral college votes and Hillary having the worst Democratic performance in 28 years, that people for voted for Obama just simply didn't show up Romney 2012 - 60,933,504 votes, Trump 2016 - 61,000,837 votes. Obama 2012 - 65,915,795 votes, Clinton 2016 - 62,109,875 votes. Let's not forget that second term presidencies typically attract fewer voters, and 2012 was a low point for Obama, whose personal record is 69,498,516 votes in 2008. People who traditionally vote Republican showed up and voted Republican. People who traditionally vote Democrat simply didn't show up.
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    > People who traditionally vote Republican showed up and voted Republican. You maybe right. I think some of traditional Republicans voted against Trump. I don't have hard numbers, but at least from my circle of acquaintances two life long Republicans voted for Hillary and against Trump, and a life long Democrat voted for Bernie then Stein. I would say it is probably not as simple as "simply didn't show up".
    - pessimizer 10y ago
      Bernie then Stein counts as not showing up here (when just looking at the two major party vote totals.) I think that Trump-hating Republicans tended to go to Gary Johnson or leave the ballot blank, and that small percentage was offset by the small number of Obama voters who switched to Trump. I'd bet that the number of Trump-haters who ultimately switched to Clinton was infinitesimal, despite her constant appeals after the primaries were over.
- lambertsimnel 10y ago
  Maybe you're aware already, but I'll mention it in case to aren't; the electoral college distorts the results of presidential elections. Hillary Clinton "got more votes than any presidential candidate in history besides Barack Obama, and won the popular vote by a wider margin than John F Kennedy in 1960 or Richard Nixon in 1968, both of whom ended up in the White House." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-president-protests-los-angeles-new-york-chicago-day-five-a7414261.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election... Edited in response to rdtsc's reply below: This comment was in response to "Hillary having the worst Democratic performance in 28 years"
  - rdtsc 10y ago
    > the electoral college distorts the results of presidential elections. Right but what's the point though? What is it in response to? Yes electoral college is how presidential elections happen. To win the election one needs electoral college votes. I've heard she had a stellar team and a tremendous experience as a politician. You think they didn't know and instead went for the popular vote?
    - lambertsimnel 10y ago
      > To win the election one needs electoral college votes. I've heard she had a stellar team and a tremendous experience as a politician. You think they didn't know and instead went for the popular vote? I believe both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump targeted swing states, neglecting the rest of the country. Clearly Donald Trump did this better. I'm not fond of either of those candidates, but neither do I mean to blame them. Above all it is the electoral system that has failed.
  - olenin_khan 10y ago
    Campaign strategies are endogenous. That is, if we get rid of the electoral college, campaign strategies would shift considerably -- for example, both parties would spend much more time on maximizing turnout in core states, as opposed to focusing attention on swing states. So, it is possible that the popular vote with the electoral college would not be mirrored by a popular vote without the electoral college.
TheBeardKing 10y ago
Foregin influence is definitely a factor. Poorer countries have a financial motivation to write fake news and clickbait articles for the mediocre income that people out here wouldn't bother with: https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became-a-global-hub-for-pro-trump-misinfo https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became...

by rhcom 10y ago

rdtsc 10y ago

I don't know, I find it hard to be believe that with Trump getting what over 300 electoral college votes and Hillary having the worst Democratic performance in 28 years, that people who voted for Obama just simply didn't show up to vote or voted for Hillary. Washington Post (if you trust it, I don't much, but got nothing else here) says this --- Nearly 1 in 5 Trump voters say they approve of Obama's job performance. That would mean about 8 percent (note: large margin of error) of Americans went to the polls on Election Day liking what Obama was producing as president but deciding to vote for the other party's unpopular nominee anyway. --- They are quoting Schar School of Policy and Government at George Mason University there

prostoalex 10y ago
> I find it hard to be believe that with Trump getting what over 300 electoral college votes and Hillary having the worst Democratic performance in 28 years, that people for voted for Obama just simply didn't show up Romney 2012 - 60,933,504 votes, Trump 2016 - 61,000,837 votes. Obama 2012 - 65,915,795 votes, Clinton 2016 - 62,109,875 votes. Let's not forget that second term presidencies typically attract fewer voters, and 2012 was a low point for Obama, whose personal record is 69,498,516 votes in 2008. People who traditionally vote Republican showed up and voted Republican. People who traditionally vote Democrat simply didn't show up.
- rdtsc 10y ago
  > People who traditionally vote Republican showed up and voted Republican. You maybe right. I think some of traditional Republicans voted against Trump. I don't have hard numbers, but at least from my circle of acquaintances two life long Republicans voted for Hillary and against Trump, and a life long Democrat voted for Bernie then Stein. I would say it is probably not as simple as "simply didn't show up".
  - pessimizer 10y ago
    Bernie then Stein counts as not showing up here (when just looking at the two major party vote totals.) I think that Trump-hating Republicans tended to go to Gary Johnson or leave the ballot blank, and that small percentage was offset by the small number of Obama voters who switched to Trump. I'd bet that the number of Trump-haters who ultimately switched to Clinton was infinitesimal, despite her constant appeals after the primaries were over.
lambertsimnel 10y ago
Maybe you're aware already, but I'll mention it in case to aren't; the electoral college distorts the results of presidential elections. Hillary Clinton "got more votes than any presidential candidate in history besides Barack Obama, and won the popular vote by a wider margin than John F Kennedy in 1960 or Richard Nixon in 1968, both of whom ended up in the White House." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-elections/donald-trump-president-protests-los-angeles-new-york-chicago-day-five-a7414261.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election... Edited in response to rdtsc's reply below: This comment was in response to "Hillary having the worst Democratic performance in 28 years"
- rdtsc 10y ago
  > the electoral college distorts the results of presidential elections. Right but what's the point though? What is it in response to? Yes electoral college is how presidential elections happen. To win the election one needs electoral college votes. I've heard she had a stellar team and a tremendous experience as a politician. You think they didn't know and instead went for the popular vote?
  - lambertsimnel 10y ago
    > To win the election one needs electoral college votes. I've heard she had a stellar team and a tremendous experience as a politician. You think they didn't know and instead went for the popular vote? I believe both Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump targeted swing states, neglecting the rest of the country. Clearly Donald Trump did this better. I'm not fond of either of those candidates, but neither do I mean to blame them. Above all it is the electoral system that has failed.
- olenin_khan 10y ago
  Campaign strategies are endogenous. That is, if we get rid of the electoral college, campaign strategies would shift considerably -- for example, both parties would spend much more time on maximizing turnout in core states, as opposed to focusing attention on swing states. So, it is possible that the popular vote with the electoral college would not be mirrored by a popular vote without the electoral college.

TheBeardKing 10y ago

Foregin influence is definitely a factor. Poorer countries have a financial motivation to write fake news and clickbait articles for the mediocre income that people out here wouldn't bother with: https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became-a-global-hub-for-pro-trump-misinfo https://www.buzzfeed.com/craigsilverman/how-macedonia-became...