5 ms·

That is not true; it's a wild exaggeration, part of the misinformation campaign. Whatever we may think politically, we all can agree that we don't need more of

That is not true; it's a wild exaggeration, part of the misinformation campaign. Whatever we may think politically, we all can agree that we don't need more of that!

generic_user 10y ago
Its a very serious intrusion that was denounced by the by American Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz and others. The front organisations are real and the intent of starting a 'Catholic Spring' was descussed by Podesta and other high ranking DNC officials.
- xnull2guest 10y ago
  https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6293 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6293 It's pretty incredible how casually members of the US government and party officials invoke the concept of galvanizing revolutionary movements. There's a concept within the US government that "it's better to convince than to conquer" but there's been a growing awareness and resistance to the emotional abuse that comes from the exhausting onslaught of ideological infiltration and astroturfed revolutionary appeal.
  - generic_user 10y ago
    The US has been involved in 'Color Revolutions' for a long time. There is evidence that Ukrainian revolution was in part aided by US and EU. George Soros Is also a big player in financing NGOs that work to establish phony social movements. Both Hillary and the DNC are connected to Soros Open Society Foundations. Soros is also funding BLM and other groups that are active in the protests/riots going on.
    - hackuser 10y ago
      For those who don't know, that is right out of the Russian propaganda talking points. Note the complete lack of substantiation; sensational, inflammatory claims have a bizarre way of causing people to stop thinking and asking the question: Is there any credible evidence, or is this just part of the endless BS that fills our world?
      - xnull2guest 10y ago
        I would say that his post is highly corroborated with what I've read from Stratfor and other leaked documents (not through Wikileaks). Indeed, the CIA have terms for different kinds of propaganda. White propaganda is true things that aide your message. Black propaganda false things that aide your message. Grey in the middle. This is definitely right out of the Russia "white propaganda" playbook, as the history fully corroborates it.
        hackuser 10y ago
        Would you provide some evidence to the rest of us?
- hackuser 10y ago
  Can you point to evidence of any of this? Organizing people for a political cause is not a conspiratorial front, it's democracy. That's the fundamental means of participating in it.
  - sdegutis 10y ago
    They were trying to incite a moral revolution within the Catholic Church to conform to their own moral standards, but the Catholic Church is not a democracy, the morals and rules are not decided by the collective members of the Catholic Church, which is what makes this move downright unethical.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      The rules are pretty arbitrary, and decided by councils of Bishops though. Trying to influence them, trying to bring the church out of the dark ages, can be seen by some to be laudable.
      - sdegutis 10y ago
        You're right, some will think so, but only those who are not familiar with how Catholic doctrine works. The rules are not arbitrary. Things like the requirement to go to Mass on Sunday are man-made rules, but made by those with authority, and for very good well-thought-out reason. Regardless of whether you agree that their authority is valid, it's not arbitrary in the least. And others are immutable laws of existence, like the fact that it is an impossibility for women to be ordained. It's like wanting to change the quantity of 3 (not the symbol but the actual number) to be 4. It's just simply impossible. These laws are not arbitrary either, they're solidly based in logical reasoning of philosophy and theology.
        JoeAltmaier 10y ago
        Well. They used to be different, how about that? For instance priests being celibate was just a marketing move. Doesn't sound so immutable. History shows the 'laws' were as fungible as the situation required.
xnull2guest 10y ago
The email in question: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6293 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6293 For those who don't know the term "Spring" means a fake, externally organized revolution that is seen as legitimate because it aggravates insiders to the cause.
- hackuser 10y ago
  These are all the hallmarks of misinformation campaigns: 1) How do we know the email, provided by Russian intelligence, is real? Do we take Russian intelligence at face value? > "Spring" means a fake, externally organized revolution that is seen as legitimate because it aggravates insiders to the cause. 2) An unfounded allegation, part of a misinformation campaign: Make enough of them and be angry enough, and A) people seem to bypass the somewhat crucial stage of examining them for truth, and B) because it's much faster and easier to make unsubstantiated allegations than to refute them (it's quick and easy to make things up, hard to find evidence), you can overwhelm the target. You have little idea what the author was thinking when they wrote words in a casual email (it's not a formal document; it's not the Declaration of Independence). You (or whoever you read) has chosen to apply an extreme meaning to someone else's words, but words have many meanings and can always be taken the wrong way if you want. For example, I could say 'we need to revolutionize Linux kernel management'. Someone could say, 'revolution means violent overthrow - he means to kill the kernel maintainers!' Spring also refers to a new awakening. It also could refer to the Arab Spring, which wasn't a 'fake, externally organized' revolution. Or it could refer to something that the readers of the email understand between themselves and they used in their private correspondence, but you and I don't. Certainly I say things to associates that could be taken way out of context. One sysadmin I know used to say, about intransigent problems, 'it's time to wave a dead chicken over it'.
  - xnull2guest 10y ago
    FUD. Trying to involve conspiracy theories about intelligence agencies. Trying to motivate a list (of two?) "hallmarks" that are neither a list nor hallmarks. Regarding Spring, the Arab Spring was externally organized. It fed on real desires of real people inside of autocratic regimes. For another example, take a look at the "Cuban Spring" and Zunzuneo. In any case, please stop spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt. The internet has enough misinformation and confusion without specific attempts to introduce more.

That is not true; it's a wild exaggeration, part of the misinformation campaign. Whatever we may think politically, we all can agree that we don't need more of that!

generic_user 10y ago

Its a very serious intrusion that was denounced by the by American Archbishop Joseph E. Kurtz and others. The front organisations are real and the intent of starting a 'Catholic Spring' was descussed by Podesta and other high ranking DNC officials.

xnull2guest 10y ago
https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6293 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6293 It's pretty incredible how casually members of the US government and party officials invoke the concept of galvanizing revolutionary movements. There's a concept within the US government that "it's better to convince than to conquer" but there's been a growing awareness and resistance to the emotional abuse that comes from the exhausting onslaught of ideological infiltration and astroturfed revolutionary appeal.
- generic_user 10y ago
  The US has been involved in 'Color Revolutions' for a long time. There is evidence that Ukrainian revolution was in part aided by US and EU. George Soros Is also a big player in financing NGOs that work to establish phony social movements. Both Hillary and the DNC are connected to Soros Open Society Foundations. Soros is also funding BLM and other groups that are active in the protests/riots going on.
  - hackuser 10y ago
    For those who don't know, that is right out of the Russian propaganda talking points. Note the complete lack of substantiation; sensational, inflammatory claims have a bizarre way of causing people to stop thinking and asking the question: Is there any credible evidence, or is this just part of the endless BS that fills our world?
    - xnull2guest 10y ago
      I would say that his post is highly corroborated with what I've read from Stratfor and other leaked documents (not through Wikileaks). Indeed, the CIA have terms for different kinds of propaganda. White propaganda is true things that aide your message. Black propaganda false things that aide your message. Grey in the middle. This is definitely right out of the Russia "white propaganda" playbook, as the history fully corroborates it.
      - hackuser 10y ago
        Would you provide some evidence to the rest of us?
hackuser 10y ago
Can you point to evidence of any of this? Organizing people for a political cause is not a conspiratorial front, it's democracy. That's the fundamental means of participating in it.
- sdegutis 10y ago
  They were trying to incite a moral revolution within the Catholic Church to conform to their own moral standards, but the Catholic Church is not a democracy, the morals and rules are not decided by the collective members of the Catholic Church, which is what makes this move downright unethical.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    The rules are pretty arbitrary, and decided by councils of Bishops though. Trying to influence them, trying to bring the church out of the dark ages, can be seen by some to be laudable.
    - sdegutis 10y ago
      You're right, some will think so, but only those who are not familiar with how Catholic doctrine works. The rules are not arbitrary. Things like the requirement to go to Mass on Sunday are man-made rules, but made by those with authority, and for very good well-thought-out reason. Regardless of whether you agree that their authority is valid, it's not arbitrary in the least. And others are immutable laws of existence, like the fact that it is an impossibility for women to be ordained. It's like wanting to change the quantity of 3 (not the symbol but the actual number) to be 4. It's just simply impossible. These laws are not arbitrary either, they're solidly based in logical reasoning of philosophy and theology.
      - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
        Well. They used to be different, how about that? For instance priests being celibate was just a marketing move. Doesn't sound so immutable. History shows the 'laws' were as fungible as the situation required.

xnull2guest 10y ago

The email in question: https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6293 https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/emailid/6293 For those who don't know the term "Spring" means a fake, externally organized revolution that is seen as legitimate because it aggravates insiders to the cause.

hackuser 10y ago
These are all the hallmarks of misinformation campaigns: 1) How do we know the email, provided by Russian intelligence, is real? Do we take Russian intelligence at face value? > "Spring" means a fake, externally organized revolution that is seen as legitimate because it aggravates insiders to the cause. 2) An unfounded allegation, part of a misinformation campaign: Make enough of them and be angry enough, and A) people seem to bypass the somewhat crucial stage of examining them for truth, and B) because it's much faster and easier to make unsubstantiated allegations than to refute them (it's quick and easy to make things up, hard to find evidence), you can overwhelm the target. You have little idea what the author was thinking when they wrote words in a casual email (it's not a formal document; it's not the Declaration of Independence). You (or whoever you read) has chosen to apply an extreme meaning to someone else's words, but words have many meanings and can always be taken the wrong way if you want. For example, I could say 'we need to revolutionize Linux kernel management'. Someone could say, 'revolution means violent overthrow - he means to kill the kernel maintainers!' Spring also refers to a new awakening. It also could refer to the Arab Spring, which wasn't a 'fake, externally organized' revolution. Or it could refer to something that the readers of the email understand between themselves and they used in their private correspondence, but you and I don't. Certainly I say things to associates that could be taken way out of context. One sysadmin I know used to say, about intransigent problems, 'it's time to wave a dead chicken over it'.
- xnull2guest 10y ago
  FUD. Trying to involve conspiracy theories about intelligence agencies. Trying to motivate a list (of two?) "hallmarks" that are neither a list nor hallmarks. Regarding Spring, the Arab Spring was externally organized. It fed on real desires of real people inside of autocratic regimes. For another example, take a look at the "Cuban Spring" and Zunzuneo. In any case, please stop spreading fear, uncertainty and doubt. The internet has enough misinformation and confusion without specific attempts to introduce more.