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I've read a few comments claiming that they went to What.CD for the "out of print" or "rare" releases that are not available anywhere legally. Does anyone have

I've read a few comments claiming that they went to What.CD for the "out of print" or "rare" releases that are not available anywhere legally. Does anyone have a clue why that is? Are copyright holders so apathetic that they won't upload older songs/albums to iTunes/YouTube? I'm co-founder of a startup in the copyright space so that is especially intriguing to me.

nv-vn 10y ago
Some might be legitimately lost outside of digital versions preserved illegally. I'd assume only a number of copies are owned by people who have purchased the music legally (who may not know where the music is located or know how to go about sharing it) and that the record label has lost it in their archives at some point (or may no longer be around at all).
- spronkey 10y ago
  I can vouch, personally, that at least one recording has been permanently lost outside of digital versions preserved "illegally".
mangix 10y ago
laziness
toyg 10y ago
> Are copyright holders so apathetic that they won't upload older songs Man, a lot of copyright holders don't exist anymore. Masters have been lost or destroyed, contacts have disappeared or died, labels passed hands so many times nobody is sure who owns what... Large companies own so many labels and so many catalogues, they don't even know what they own and they don't have the time or inclination to care. In many cases, royalties are split among various parties, and the record company can't be arsed to pay whoever needs to get paid, so they just stop selling anything that is not a big hit. A few years ago, a bank in Manchester sold a building they had occupied for decades, which included a vault with safe boxes. They tracked down all the owners they could, to make sure they could move their stuff, but in many cases they didn't get a reply, so they just left the stuff there. The new owners went through the remaining boxes and found, among other things (guns, jewels etc), original master tapes for old Joy Division and New Order albums [1]. This is normal. The "industry" has always been a bit of a shambles when it comes to conservation. Heck, even the BBC reused the original Dr. Who tapes... [1] http://metro.co.uk/2012/02/15/jamie-oliver-finds-joy-division-and-new-order-rare-tapes-in-basement-319375/ http://metro.co.uk/2012/02/15/jamie-oliver-finds-joy-divisio...
- spronkey 10y ago
  Yep - group of us found some original recordings, never released, from a bankrupt company once upon a time. Assets were never purchased by anyone. If we hadn't preserved, they would have gone to the tip and never been released.
fl0wenol 10y ago
There are three groups of people who want to preserve rare or obscure recordings: 1) The creators themselves 2) Music aficionados 3) Music historians The consumer public, copyright holders, licensees, and paid-distribution entities (where most of the money exchanges hands) do not. Record labels and other aggregate copyright holders don't care about each individual catalog entry much unless its currently generating revenue worth the overhead to be on top of, if that makes sense. At a certain point it's a liability in the large. Places like what.cd thrived on the obscure, and just as a bittorrent client prioritizes grabbing the rarest fragments first, what.cd's ratio bounty system and community also rewarded those who would unearth and organize everything; catering to groups 2/3 above, and sometimes even 1. All you could trade on there is expertise, access, and time.
stevewillows 10y ago
I know with a lot of 'lounge' music that I listen to, its impossible to find a lot of the obscure albums. If they did print them, only a few thousand people would be in the market. Outside of this, there are albums that I own that weren't ever released as a CD, MD, etc -- and I lack the hardware to make a good digital copy.

nv-vn 10y ago

Some might be legitimately lost outside of digital versions preserved illegally. I'd assume only a number of copies are owned by people who have purchased the music legally (who may not know where the music is located or know how to go about sharing it) and that the record label has lost it in their archives at some point (or may no longer be around at all).

spronkey 10y ago
I can vouch, personally, that at least one recording has been permanently lost outside of digital versions preserved "illegally".

mangix 10y ago

laziness

toyg 10y ago

> Are copyright holders so apathetic that they won't upload older songs Man, a lot of copyright holders don't exist anymore. Masters have been lost or destroyed, contacts have disappeared or died, labels passed hands so many times nobody is sure who owns what... Large companies own so many labels and so many catalogues, they don't even know what they own and they don't have the time or inclination to care. In many cases, royalties are split among various parties, and the record company can't be arsed to pay whoever needs to get paid, so they just stop selling anything that is not a big hit. A few years ago, a bank in Manchester sold a building they had occupied for decades, which included a vault with safe boxes. They tracked down all the owners they could, to make sure they could move their stuff, but in many cases they didn't get a reply, so they just left the stuff there. The new owners went through the remaining boxes and found, among other things (guns, jewels etc), original master tapes for old Joy Division and New Order albums [1]. This is normal. The "industry" has always been a bit of a shambles when it comes to conservation. Heck, even the BBC reused the original Dr. Who tapes... [1] http://metro.co.uk/2012/02/15/jamie-oliver-finds-joy-division-and-new-order-rare-tapes-in-basement-319375/ http://metro.co.uk/2012/02/15/jamie-oliver-finds-joy-divisio...

spronkey 10y ago
Yep - group of us found some original recordings, never released, from a bankrupt company once upon a time. Assets were never purchased by anyone. If we hadn't preserved, they would have gone to the tip and never been released.

fl0wenol 10y ago

There are three groups of people who want to preserve rare or obscure recordings: 1) The creators themselves 2) Music aficionados 3) Music historians The consumer public, copyright holders, licensees, and paid-distribution entities (where most of the money exchanges hands) do not. Record labels and other aggregate copyright holders don't care about each individual catalog entry much unless its currently generating revenue worth the overhead to be on top of, if that makes sense. At a certain point it's a liability in the large. Places like what.cd thrived on the obscure, and just as a bittorrent client prioritizes grabbing the rarest fragments first, what.cd's ratio bounty system and community also rewarded those who would unearth and organize everything; catering to groups 2/3 above, and sometimes even 1. All you could trade on there is expertise, access, and time.

stevewillows 10y ago

I know with a lot of 'lounge' music that I listen to, its impossible to find a lot of the obscure albums. If they did print them, only a few thousand people would be in the market. Outside of this, there are albums that I own that weren't ever released as a CD, MD, etc -- and I lack the hardware to make a good digital copy.