7 ms·

This is awesome. My wife and I are planning a round the world trip to celebrate our last college tuition payment. We've talked about becoming 'Citizens of the W

This is awesome. My wife and I are planning a round the world trip to celebrate our last college tuition payment. We've talked about becoming 'Citizens of the World' and eschewing the canned tourist experiences to instead live the same lifestyle as the citizens of the countries we visit: Stay in a neighborhood instead of a high-rise hotel, shop at the same grocery stores, eat the same home-cooked meals, get around via the same transit, I mean as high-fidelity as is reasonable. We expect the main friction will be language, but we anticipate that we can work through that. Thinking a little bigger, I can see no better way to combat bigotry and nationalism than to experience life the same way as humans from the other side of the planet, and realize that we are the same in so many ways.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
hueving 10y ago
>Thinking a little bigger, I can see no better way to combat bigotry and nationalism than to experience life the same way as humans from the other side of the planet, and realize that we are the same in so many ways. The people rich enough and willing to do this in the first place are usually not that bigoted/nationalistic. Someone who hates the French isn't going to volunteer to go live in a village in France for a month... especially if it means quitting their job and spending a 20% of their annual income to do so.
- venantius 10y ago
  Think about the other side of this - the host side. For hosts of these experiences, they don't need to be rich or capital-owning at all in order to be exposed to people of many different backgrounds through experiences.
  - frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
    To experience the rich capital owners of other countries?
    - princeb 10y ago
      i think would be very cool if there was an app that would do the reverse and enable the have-nots to have what the haves have, even for a short period of time: - private heli trip to a private island villa, - 300' yachts, aventadors, 488s, 911s all free to use, - private shopping sessions (fully paid for) at hermes, chanel, - meet-and-greets w/ robuchon, redzepi etc, - take a whimsical trip to some middle of nowhere farm to work for a day.. at a totally affordable price for the typical middle class in a middling country. it's not real obviously, it's all a show, rich people don't live like this every day, just substantially more likely to experience something like this than the not-so-rich. obviously, it's not going to happen, but it is a hope.
      - ryuker16 10y ago
        That's sorta of the point of resorts and cruises.
        ethanbond 10y ago
        And Vegas! The underlying reason all of those things suck. Relevant: David Foster Wallace's "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again." You should read it — it's a hilarious takedown of these sorts of experiences (specifically a 7 day Caribbean cruise).
        ryuker16 10y ago
        My parents have money and love cruises. I don't get it at all. I suppose it's because it's cheap if you know how to hunt down a deal.
        tomjakubowski 10y ago
        Is it the same as the essay "Shipping Out", that David Foster Wallace published in Harper's Magazine in the mid-90s? https://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/HarpersMagazine-1996-01-0007859.pdf https://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/HarpersMagazi...
- 11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
  Right about that. But if travelers have no preconceived notion one way or the other, this can provide a true notion that they can carry back to friends and family, Tweet about, Instagram, Facebook, etc. etc. The message will get out.
tedmiston 10y ago
I've done this abroad in a few places — Costa Rica, Taiwan, Greece. While it is pretty trendy, it's actually somewhat difficult to "live like a local" in places where you don't know a local. That said I think staying in an Airbnb spare room with a local host simplifies things a lot. I suppose they can kinda become your impromptu host family. Also, you might like the short book Vagabonding by Rolf Potts.
surrey-fringe 10y ago
Wow, you are deep and impressive. Very cool!
GuiA 10y ago
> to instead live the same lifestyle as the citizens of the countries we visit: Stay in a neighborhood instead of a high-rise hotel, shop at the same grocery stores, eat the same home-cooked meals, get around via the same transit, I mean as high-fidelity as is reasonable Until one of you gets severely sick or something like that, in which case you'll be very happy to not live like a local anymore and fall back on your home country. This "citizen of the world" rhetoric seems to only ever be "citizen of the world that we like". How about being a citizen of the world in North Korea, or as a woman in Saudi Arabia, or as a gay teenager in Somalia? Sorry, I have a hard time swallowing the "bourgeoisie traveling the world with Airbnb is the best way to combat bigotry" bait.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- malloryerik 10y ago
  You might try thinking about this from the other direction. I can tell you from first-hand experience that once-shocking levels of South Korean nationalism, and really, ethnic nationalism, have been calmed down to something far far friendlier and more cosmopolitan, and it very much seems that travel and exposure to other cultures (especially the West, but not only) are what has done the trick. Now as for being a North Korean, well, you are kind of proving the point because North Koreans' number one problem is isolation from the world. Back in the USA, what percentage of Trump voters do you imagine hold passports? Sure, correlation is different from causation, but still... So I can respect your call to realism, but at the same time it reminds me of some old aphorism about babies and bathwater or something. Incidentally, another baby that people seem to want to throw out when the bathwater gets dirty is international trade.
  - hueving 10y ago
    >Back in the USA, what percentage of Trump voters do you imagine hold passports? Sure, correlation is different from causation, but still... About the same percentage as Hillary supporters? In my experience holding a passport is more correlated with income than any particular political leaning. What they do is likely a lot different (e.g. religious mission vs French wine binge), but there is nothing particularly Democrat/Republican about a passport.
nerdponx 10y ago
So just use couchsurfing.org
nether 10y ago
If you come to Los Angeles, you can do my laundry and buy my groceries for a real locals experience.
lcc 10y ago
I highly recommend HelpX to get a really good feel of the lifestyle in foreign countries. Rather than just staying at someone's place like Airbnb, you do light work for your host in exchange for free room and board. You get a place to live in a place where locals actually live, homecooked meals in the local style, when your host don't feel like cooking you get taken out to eat at places where locals actually eat, get shown around the local sights by your host on evenings and weekends, and you also get to experience some of the work they do. It's an incredibly easy, low-cost, and effective way to temporarily live somewhere. I stayed with 2 families in France that way, and got to label wine bottles at a local domaine (vineyard), drink their wine at dinner, shovel horse manure at a farm, harvest honey, ran to the boulangerie for bread, went shopping at the local supermarket, got shown around a spectacular nearby castle and a monastery carved into a cliff that I'd never heard of, ate cheese and charcuterie at their favourite restaurants, they made an effort to cook traditional food like raclette and canneles for me to try.... really I can't rave about the experience enough. https://www.helpx.net/ https://www.helpx.net/
- erroneousfunk 10y ago
  This sounds tempting, but I have a hard enough time arranging regular visas on international trips, and work visas (even short term ones) sound like a nightmare and a half...
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    Do you need a work visa if you are being "paid" in kind (board, food, internet access)?
    - lcc 10y ago
      I don't know the official answer, but given that it's all under the table, short term and no money is being exchanged, I think you'd be crazy to even try getting a work visa. I'll be honest that it didn't even cross my mind.
    - erroneousfunk 10y ago
untog 10y ago
It's a nice idea, but if the rest of AirBnb is anything to go by, it'll very quickly be filled with generic experiences that cut costs and under deliver. I've had some great times staying at AirBnbs, but over time the ratio of good to bad/average is sliding fast.
- theparanoid 10y ago
  I've had good experiences with professionally written descriptions and not going too cheap on the price. Any straying and it's very hit and miss.
princeb 10y ago
> combat bigotry and nationalism than to experience life the same way as humans from the other side of the planet it's hard to do as a tourist because the whole point of travelling is to momentarily disconnect from the existential demands of life, which drives national sentiment. unless in your quest to live like a local, you also experience the angst of employment, family, social pressure and social standing, and where your place in the world is going to be. that's just not going to happen.
pnut 10y ago
My wife and I did the same for all of 2014 and 2015, living out of airbnbs, one month to the next. Nothing but amazing people and experiences and nothing but 5 star reviews in both directions, with us singing Airbnb's praises all the way. And then last week, I tried to find a place for new year's, and discovered that Airbnb had deleted my account without notice and without cause. It is impossible to contact a human being without an airbnb account, and we are effectively blacklisted from doing business with the company. Checking online, this is hardly an isolated case, so do yourself a favor and have a backup plan for that eventuality.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

hueving 10y ago

>Thinking a little bigger, I can see no better way to combat bigotry and nationalism than to experience life the same way as humans from the other side of the planet, and realize that we are the same in so many ways. The people rich enough and willing to do this in the first place are usually not that bigoted/nationalistic. Someone who hates the French isn't going to volunteer to go live in a village in France for a month... especially if it means quitting their job and spending a 20% of their annual income to do so.

venantius 10y ago
Think about the other side of this - the host side. For hosts of these experiences, they don't need to be rich or capital-owning at all in order to be exposed to people of many different backgrounds through experiences.
- frgtpsswrdlame 10y ago
  To experience the rich capital owners of other countries?
  - princeb 10y ago
    i think would be very cool if there was an app that would do the reverse and enable the have-nots to have what the haves have, even for a short period of time: - private heli trip to a private island villa, - 300' yachts, aventadors, 488s, 911s all free to use, - private shopping sessions (fully paid for) at hermes, chanel, - meet-and-greets w/ robuchon, redzepi etc, - take a whimsical trip to some middle of nowhere farm to work for a day.. at a totally affordable price for the typical middle class in a middling country. it's not real obviously, it's all a show, rich people don't live like this every day, just substantially more likely to experience something like this than the not-so-rich. obviously, it's not going to happen, but it is a hope.
    - ryuker16 10y ago
      That's sorta of the point of resorts and cruises.
      - ethanbond 10y ago
        And Vegas! The underlying reason all of those things suck. Relevant: David Foster Wallace's "A Supposedly Fun Thing I'll Never Do Again." You should read it — it's a hilarious takedown of these sorts of experiences (specifically a 7 day Caribbean cruise).
        ryuker16 10y ago
        My parents have money and love cruises. I don't get it at all. I suppose it's because it's cheap if you know how to hunt down a deal.
        tomjakubowski 10y ago
        Is it the same as the essay "Shipping Out", that David Foster Wallace published in Harper's Magazine in the mid-90s? https://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/HarpersMagazine-1996-01-0007859.pdf https://harpers.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/HarpersMagazi...
11thEarlOfMar 10y ago
Right about that. But if travelers have no preconceived notion one way or the other, this can provide a true notion that they can carry back to friends and family, Tweet about, Instagram, Facebook, etc. etc. The message will get out.

tedmiston 10y ago

I've done this abroad in a few places — Costa Rica, Taiwan, Greece. While it is pretty trendy, it's actually somewhat difficult to "live like a local" in places where you don't know a local. That said I think staying in an Airbnb spare room with a local host simplifies things a lot. I suppose they can kinda become your impromptu host family. Also, you might like the short book Vagabonding by Rolf Potts.

surrey-fringe 10y ago

Wow, you are deep and impressive. Very cool!

GuiA 10y ago

> to instead live the same lifestyle as the citizens of the countries we visit: Stay in a neighborhood instead of a high-rise hotel, shop at the same grocery stores, eat the same home-cooked meals, get around via the same transit, I mean as high-fidelity as is reasonable Until one of you gets severely sick or something like that, in which case you'll be very happy to not live like a local anymore and fall back on your home country. This "citizen of the world" rhetoric seems to only ever be "citizen of the world that we like". How about being a citizen of the world in North Korea, or as a woman in Saudi Arabia, or as a gay teenager in Somalia? Sorry, I have a hard time swallowing the "bourgeoisie traveling the world with Airbnb is the best way to combat bigotry" bait.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
malloryerik 10y ago
You might try thinking about this from the other direction. I can tell you from first-hand experience that once-shocking levels of South Korean nationalism, and really, ethnic nationalism, have been calmed down to something far far friendlier and more cosmopolitan, and it very much seems that travel and exposure to other cultures (especially the West, but not only) are what has done the trick. Now as for being a North Korean, well, you are kind of proving the point because North Koreans' number one problem is isolation from the world. Back in the USA, what percentage of Trump voters do you imagine hold passports? Sure, correlation is different from causation, but still... So I can respect your call to realism, but at the same time it reminds me of some old aphorism about babies and bathwater or something. Incidentally, another baby that people seem to want to throw out when the bathwater gets dirty is international trade.
- hueving 10y ago
  >Back in the USA, what percentage of Trump voters do you imagine hold passports? Sure, correlation is different from causation, but still... About the same percentage as Hillary supporters? In my experience holding a passport is more correlated with income than any particular political leaning. What they do is likely a lot different (e.g. religious mission vs French wine binge), but there is nothing particularly Democrat/Republican about a passport.

nerdponx 10y ago

So just use couchsurfing.org

nether 10y ago

If you come to Los Angeles, you can do my laundry and buy my groceries for a real locals experience.

lcc 10y ago

I highly recommend HelpX to get a really good feel of the lifestyle in foreign countries. Rather than just staying at someone's place like Airbnb, you do light work for your host in exchange for free room and board. You get a place to live in a place where locals actually live, homecooked meals in the local style, when your host don't feel like cooking you get taken out to eat at places where locals actually eat, get shown around the local sights by your host on evenings and weekends, and you also get to experience some of the work they do. It's an incredibly easy, low-cost, and effective way to temporarily live somewhere. I stayed with 2 families in France that way, and got to label wine bottles at a local domaine (vineyard), drink their wine at dinner, shovel horse manure at a farm, harvest honey, ran to the boulangerie for bread, went shopping at the local supermarket, got shown around a spectacular nearby castle and a monastery carved into a cliff that I'd never heard of, ate cheese and charcuterie at their favourite restaurants, they made an effort to cook traditional food like raclette and canneles for me to try.... really I can't rave about the experience enough. https://www.helpx.net/ https://www.helpx.net/

erroneousfunk 10y ago
This sounds tempting, but I have a hard enough time arranging regular visas on international trips, and work visas (even short term ones) sound like a nightmare and a half...
- paulddraper 10y ago
  Do you need a work visa if you are being "paid" in kind (board, food, internet access)?
  - lcc 10y ago
    I don't know the official answer, but given that it's all under the table, short term and no money is being exchanged, I think you'd be crazy to even try getting a work visa. I'll be honest that it didn't even cross my mind.
  - erroneousfunk 10y ago

untog 10y ago

It's a nice idea, but if the rest of AirBnb is anything to go by, it'll very quickly be filled with generic experiences that cut costs and under deliver. I've had some great times staying at AirBnbs, but over time the ratio of good to bad/average is sliding fast.

theparanoid 10y ago
I've had good experiences with professionally written descriptions and not going too cheap on the price. Any straying and it's very hit and miss.

princeb 10y ago

> combat bigotry and nationalism than to experience life the same way as humans from the other side of the planet it's hard to do as a tourist because the whole point of travelling is to momentarily disconnect from the existential demands of life, which drives national sentiment. unless in your quest to live like a local, you also experience the angst of employment, family, social pressure and social standing, and where your place in the world is going to be. that's just not going to happen.

pnut 10y ago

My wife and I did the same for all of 2014 and 2015, living out of airbnbs, one month to the next. Nothing but amazing people and experiences and nothing but 5 star reviews in both directions, with us singing Airbnb's praises all the way. And then last week, I tried to find a place for new year's, and discovered that Airbnb had deleted my account without notice and without cause. It is impossible to contact a human being without an airbnb account, and we are effectively blacklisted from doing business with the company. Checking online, this is hardly an isolated case, so do yourself a favor and have a backup plan for that eventuality.