4 ms·

> Lennart wrote a pretty good summary of why journald exists [...] Of the reasons he wrote it, half of them is not met by journald, and the other half could be

by dozzie 10y ago

> Lennart wrote a pretty good summary of why journald exists [...] Of the reasons he wrote it, half of them is not met by journald, and the other half could be implemented without much trouble on top of syslog. Hard to call it "holding up to scrutiny pretty well". And I fail to see how journald is better than syslog in the age of containers.

SwellJoe 10y ago
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, then. You don't like systemd or journald, and that's fine. To me, it looks like systemd and journald solve the problems they set out to solve in a reasonable way; I don't like everything about it, but I didn't like a lot of things about initscripts and syslog, either, and think we've moved up in the world by switching. Hopefully, you'll be able to direct your energies into maintaining one of the distros that has chosen to stick with the old way of doing things (Devuan seems to be the most promising one coming up, but I guess there are several others). I'm not opposed to folks having choices, as long as I don't have to maintain them.
- dozzie 10y ago
  To detach from discussion at this point is fine, I guess. But please entertain my question about containers. I'm yet to try those out, be it Docker or some other packaging solution[#], so I'd like to know beforehand what is different with them in logging than what I usually expect from regular log centralization. [#] LXC/libvirt type containers I see as merely cheap VMs, though I like them very much.
  - SwellJoe 10y ago
    I think me backing off is the only useful thing for me to do. We both seem pretty convinced about what the right solution to these problems is, and neither seems to be budging. I don't really think either is right or wrong; I have a preference and so do you. As for Docker, you can continue to use the logging tools you're used to, or you can have it output to the journal. Docker supports many logging drivers: https://docs.docker.com/engine/admin/logging/overview/ https://docs.docker.com/engine/admin/logging/overview/

by dozzie 10y ago

SwellJoe 10y ago

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree, then. You don't like systemd or journald, and that's fine. To me, it looks like systemd and journald solve the problems they set out to solve in a reasonable way; I don't like everything about it, but I didn't like a lot of things about initscripts and syslog, either, and think we've moved up in the world by switching. Hopefully, you'll be able to direct your energies into maintaining one of the distros that has chosen to stick with the old way of doing things (Devuan seems to be the most promising one coming up, but I guess there are several others). I'm not opposed to folks having choices, as long as I don't have to maintain them.

dozzie 10y ago
To detach from discussion at this point is fine, I guess. But please entertain my question about containers. I'm yet to try those out, be it Docker or some other packaging solution[#], so I'd like to know beforehand what is different with them in logging than what I usually expect from regular log centralization. [#] LXC/libvirt type containers I see as merely cheap VMs, though I like them very much.
- SwellJoe 10y ago
  I think me backing off is the only useful thing for me to do. We both seem pretty convinced about what the right solution to these problems is, and neither seems to be budging. I don't really think either is right or wrong; I have a preference and so do you. As for Docker, you can continue to use the logging tools you're used to, or you can have it output to the journal. Docker supports many logging drivers: https://docs.docker.com/engine/admin/logging/overview/ https://docs.docker.com/engine/admin/logging/overview/