5 ms·

> Get out of your bubble. > Hang out more on subreddits you don't agree with. > The divide is bridged one person at a time. It's amazing to me how such seemi

by lj3 10y ago

> Get out of your bubble. > Hang out more on subreddits you don't agree with. > The divide is bridged one person at a time. It's amazing to me how such seemingly smart people can see what's going on and completely miss the point. You still think it's just a matter of educating the dumb, racist rednecks that reside in the rural flyover areas. It's not. Those "idiots" understand your point of view. They reject it completely. It doesn't reflect any reality they recognize, which is why none of you saw it coming. You pay too much attention to ideology and how you wish things were instead of reality and how things actually are. You can reach out all you like. It won't "bridge the divide." It'll create more opposition. More divide. You need to start thinking hard about whether your positions are as accurate as you've always believed them to be.

jackmott 10y ago
Ok which position have I got wrong? Should we be putting gay people in jail? I know global warming is real, I've checked the math personally. Help me out.
- lj3 10y ago
  > Help me out. Where's my incentive to "help you out"? You ask, but you don't really want to know. You've already made up your mind. That much is obvious in how you phrased your question.
- jerf 10y ago
  You're falling victim to the bubble again, thinking that the only difference is that they thing "gay people should be in jail". You'd be far better off thinking about questions like, how come when places are run under the policies that Democrats seem to favor, African Americans aren't making any economic progress? Why does my 25 year old child have to still live with me? Why am I paying for a college that seems more interested in indoctrinating my child than educating them? Why are several demographics seeing significant rises in suicide rates? Why does the government count me as no longer unemployed because I haven't been able to find a job in some number of years? Why did my mandatory health care cut its benefits and go up in price by 50% this year? Why is it when I raise these concerns people just mock me for wanting to put gay people in jail? Why is it that the response to my every concern is to be called racist? Something I think the HN crowd needs to remember is that while we are not really in the "elite", we are at least in the low elite. We make money and stock options. When someone comes into our industry making $60K a year we ask them what they're doing wrong to make merely 50% over the median wage. Thinking that all this cultural conflict is over whether gay people are sent to prison is just another way of distancing yourself from the real problems, and ensuring that this electoral result keeps happening. Many of these people are making less in a year than I keep in my bank account as my rainy day fund. Many things matter to them that you or I would just spend our way around. I'll also suggest that it doesn't do much good to say something like "Well, sure, the people I elected may be in charge but I don't actually agree with what they're doing" or some dodge like that. I said "policies that Democrats seem to favor" up above carefully, because it may be the case that you don't favor them yourself, but it doesn't matter, because you (collectively) are voting for people who do. I see HN frequently disagreeing with what you might call the establishment liberal consensus on things like surveillance, but that's not terribly relevant to understanding what's actually going on out there in the world because the SV liberal deviations are not electorally significant.
- ar15saveslives 10y ago
  Gun control, for example. Nobody hurt the completely sane idea of controlling/restricting guns than leftist gun-control activists.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
AnimalMuppet 10y ago
I think you totally missed striking's point. It's at least as much a matter of educating the ignorant liberals that reside on the coasts.
- lj3 10y ago
  Educating them of what, though?
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    What the middle of the country thinks (as opposed to what the liberal caricature of them thinks). What their problems are. What they care about. What it's actually like to live there.
    - lj3 10y ago
      To what end?
      - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
        I'm not sure how far you want me to go in answering that question, but I'll give you a few layers of it. So that the media elites aren't out of touch with half the population, and 90% of the land area of the country. What good will that do? To some degree, it will make it so that we no longer have "two Americas", where one part feels completely alienated from the other part. What good will that do? Hopefully, politics becomes more sane, more connected with what people in the country actually need, and more able to actually solve problems. (Though if this election taught us anything, it ought to have taught us that hope isn't going to come from the government. And if you think hope would have come from the other side winning: Did you really expect hope from Hillary? Or just "not Trump"?)
        lj3 10y ago
        > To some degree, it will make it so that we no longer have "two Americas", where one part feels completely alienated from the other part. I don't see how you got there. What about simply understanding the right's position magically brings the two sides together? Wouldn't both sides need to agree? That seems unlikely, considering BLM's motto these days is 'kill all whites'. I don't know about you, but as a white man, I find it unlikely that I would ever sympathize with a sentiment that means I no longer exist. > Hopefully, politics becomes more sane, more connected with what people in the country actually need, and more able to actually solve problems. Again, I don't understand how you got there. Let's say the right is exactly as racist, sexist and homophobic as the left currently thinks and that more than 50% of the American people actually, truly want a return to the days when homosexuality was outlawed, blacks were slaves and women were property. How does understanding that make politics more sane?

by lj3 10y ago

jackmott 10y ago

Ok which position have I got wrong? Should we be putting gay people in jail? I know global warming is real, I've checked the math personally. Help me out.

lj3 10y ago
> Help me out. Where's my incentive to "help you out"? You ask, but you don't really want to know. You've already made up your mind. That much is obvious in how you phrased your question.
jerf 10y ago
You're falling victim to the bubble again, thinking that the only difference is that they thing "gay people should be in jail". You'd be far better off thinking about questions like, how come when places are run under the policies that Democrats seem to favor, African Americans aren't making any economic progress? Why does my 25 year old child have to still live with me? Why am I paying for a college that seems more interested in indoctrinating my child than educating them? Why are several demographics seeing significant rises in suicide rates? Why does the government count me as no longer unemployed because I haven't been able to find a job in some number of years? Why did my mandatory health care cut its benefits and go up in price by 50% this year? Why is it when I raise these concerns people just mock me for wanting to put gay people in jail? Why is it that the response to my every concern is to be called racist? Something I think the HN crowd needs to remember is that while we are not really in the "elite", we are at least in the low elite. We make money and stock options. When someone comes into our industry making $60K a year we ask them what they're doing wrong to make merely 50% over the median wage. Thinking that all this cultural conflict is over whether gay people are sent to prison is just another way of distancing yourself from the real problems, and ensuring that this electoral result keeps happening. Many of these people are making less in a year than I keep in my bank account as my rainy day fund. Many things matter to them that you or I would just spend our way around. I'll also suggest that it doesn't do much good to say something like "Well, sure, the people I elected may be in charge but I don't actually agree with what they're doing" or some dodge like that. I said "policies that Democrats seem to favor" up above carefully, because it may be the case that you don't favor them yourself, but it doesn't matter, because you (collectively) are voting for people who do. I see HN frequently disagreeing with what you might call the establishment liberal consensus on things like surveillance, but that's not terribly relevant to understanding what's actually going on out there in the world because the SV liberal deviations are not electorally significant.
ar15saveslives 10y ago
Gun control, for example. Nobody hurt the completely sane idea of controlling/restricting guns than leftist gun-control activists.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

AnimalMuppet 10y ago

I think you totally missed striking's point. It's at least as much a matter of educating the ignorant liberals that reside on the coasts.

lj3 10y ago
Educating them of what, though?
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  What the middle of the country thinks (as opposed to what the liberal caricature of them thinks). What their problems are. What they care about. What it's actually like to live there.
  - lj3 10y ago
    To what end?
    - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
      I'm not sure how far you want me to go in answering that question, but I'll give you a few layers of it. So that the media elites aren't out of touch with half the population, and 90% of the land area of the country. What good will that do? To some degree, it will make it so that we no longer have "two Americas", where one part feels completely alienated from the other part. What good will that do? Hopefully, politics becomes more sane, more connected with what people in the country actually need, and more able to actually solve problems. (Though if this election taught us anything, it ought to have taught us that hope isn't going to come from the government. And if you think hope would have come from the other side winning: Did you really expect hope from Hillary? Or just "not Trump"?)
      - lj3 10y ago
        > To some degree, it will make it so that we no longer have "two Americas", where one part feels completely alienated from the other part. I don't see how you got there. What about simply understanding the right's position magically brings the two sides together? Wouldn't both sides need to agree? That seems unlikely, considering BLM's motto these days is 'kill all whites'. I don't know about you, but as a white man, I find it unlikely that I would ever sympathize with a sentiment that means I no longer exist. > Hopefully, politics becomes more sane, more connected with what people in the country actually need, and more able to actually solve problems. Again, I don't understand how you got there. Let's say the right is exactly as racist, sexist and homophobic as the left currently thinks and that more than 50% of the American people actually, truly want a return to the days when homosexuality was outlawed, blacks were slaves and women were property. How does understanding that make politics more sane?