4 ms·

The North Pole is 36 degrees warmer than normal

64 points by jorkro 10y ago

ghouse 10y ago
Why not a simple revenue-neutral modest carbon tax? And for countries who do not have a similar paradigm, an import tariff equal to the equivalent embedded CO2. It appears much of the world (other than the US) is now headed in this direction.
- aetherson 10y ago
  Here's an article on Vox about a carbon tax initiative in Washington: http://www.vox.com/2016/10/18/13012394/i-732-carbon-tax-washington http://www.vox.com/2016/10/18/13012394/i-732-carbon-tax-wash... It's an interesting article and is worth reading in full. But my takeaway from it is "environmentalists, and particularly wonky highly scientific environmentalists, are junior members of the liberal coalition. Their role in the liberal coalition is to follow policy and add support to it. Their coalition members are not interested in narrow environmental initiatives like a revenue-neutral carbon tax." So liberals sink modest wonky proposals like a revenue-neutral carbon tax. Conservatives sink giant omnibuses that include environmental stuff in a package with redistribution and social justice stuff. End result: no environmental legislation. I have a blog post going into more detail on the subject here: https://sandoratthezoo.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/scientific-environmentalists-are-junior-coalition-members/ https://sandoratthezoo.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/scientific-e...
  - rch 10y ago
    Thanks for the link and the blog post - the climate justice split is affecting efforts in Colorado as well. However, my impression is that the Washington initiative from the Vox article would have performed well in Colorado, as it tends to lean more pragmatic/conservative pro-environment.
- merpnderp 10y ago
  Everyone with any brains and/or ethics wanted a carbon tax 15 years ago. But straight taxes don't offer nearly the opportunity for graft and corruption. Which, if looking at the investments of the major players tells us anything, is exactly why we didn't get a carbon tax even climate change skeptics would have been cool with.
- ars 10y ago
  > an import tariff equal to the equivalent embedded CO2. That's an impossible number to calculate. For example: A plant powered entirely by solar cells. Do you tax them for the CO2 embedded in manufacturing those solar cells? How far down do you go? Do you have to calculate the CO2 emitted by your employees via the money you pay them? Because if you don't your wage costs are lower than wages costs in the US, where you have to pay your employees extra to cover CO2 taxes. Also, don't forget to give American manufacturers CO2 tax credit for exports, or you will make American exporting too expensive. But doing that leads to the insane result that shipping American goods overseas, buying it there, then shipping it back, is cheaper than buying it locally. (No one pays tariffs on small imports when you buy on Ebay for example, only bulk imports are taxed.) That's why "why not" - it's simply too complicated. (I'm all for it mind you, if it could be done. But I don't think it can be done.)
shitgoose 10y ago
http://weather-warehouse.com/WeatherHistory/PastWeatherData_NorthPole_NorthPole_AK_January.html http://weather-warehouse.com/WeatherHistory/PastWeatherData_... paste the table to excel and chart first two columns (we are still to beat warm winters of 1981 and 1985). what is insane it the wapo headline.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- nwrk 10y ago
  Go and speak with people living around glaciers. ie. Argentina,Chile,Peru. Ask for 5 years old pictures. Compare with present and optionaly with your excel. EDIT: some relevant photos http://www.peruviantimes.com/20/global-warming-impact-perus-pastoruri-glacier-recedes-into-two-patches-of-ice/70/2070/ http://www.peruviantimes.com/20/global-warming-impact-perus-...
- strictnein 10y ago
  Easier: Just use the table on that page to sort. 2016 isn't anything extraordinary.
- calibration263 10y ago
  These temperatures are for North Pole Fairbanks Alaska. It's not "The North Pole", it's also not even in the Arctic Circle.In fact if you look at the first picture in the linked article, you'll see how the deltas they're referring to are not the case in Alaska. (And the temperature in the middle of Alaska doesn't have much bearing on Arctic sea ice).
  - shitgoose 10y ago
    damn google! i stand corrected:)
nwrk 10y ago
Extremely scary. Even junior sysadmin seeing chart[1] like this one in article would say something wrong with the 'system'. [1] https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2016/11/meanT_2016.png https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp-co...
brandmeyer 10y ago
Lest anyone claim that this is a short-term excursion, temperatures in the arctic have been well above average all season. http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php
Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago
Degrees fahrenheit... Probably don't need to start your doomsday prepping just yet.
castratikron 10y ago
I never thought I'd see a gnuplot graph in a mainstream news piece. Gnuplot is seriously awesome, though.

64 points by jorkro 10y ago

Why not a simple revenue-neutral modest carbon tax? And for countries who do not have a similar paradigm, an import tariff equal to the equivalent embedded CO2. It appears much of the world (other than the US) is now headed in this direction.

aetherson 10y ago
Here's an article on Vox about a carbon tax initiative in Washington: http://www.vox.com/2016/10/18/13012394/i-732-carbon-tax-washington http://www.vox.com/2016/10/18/13012394/i-732-carbon-tax-wash... It's an interesting article and is worth reading in full. But my takeaway from it is "environmentalists, and particularly wonky highly scientific environmentalists, are junior members of the liberal coalition. Their role in the liberal coalition is to follow policy and add support to it. Their coalition members are not interested in narrow environmental initiatives like a revenue-neutral carbon tax." So liberals sink modest wonky proposals like a revenue-neutral carbon tax. Conservatives sink giant omnibuses that include environmental stuff in a package with redistribution and social justice stuff. End result: no environmental legislation. I have a blog post going into more detail on the subject here: https://sandoratthezoo.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/scientific-environmentalists-are-junior-coalition-members/ https://sandoratthezoo.wordpress.com/2016/10/19/scientific-e...
- rch 10y ago
  Thanks for the link and the blog post - the climate justice split is affecting efforts in Colorado as well. However, my impression is that the Washington initiative from the Vox article would have performed well in Colorado, as it tends to lean more pragmatic/conservative pro-environment.
merpnderp 10y ago
Everyone with any brains and/or ethics wanted a carbon tax 15 years ago. But straight taxes don't offer nearly the opportunity for graft and corruption. Which, if looking at the investments of the major players tells us anything, is exactly why we didn't get a carbon tax even climate change skeptics would have been cool with.
ars 10y ago
> an import tariff equal to the equivalent embedded CO2. That's an impossible number to calculate. For example: A plant powered entirely by solar cells. Do you tax them for the CO2 embedded in manufacturing those solar cells? How far down do you go? Do you have to calculate the CO2 emitted by your employees via the money you pay them? Because if you don't your wage costs are lower than wages costs in the US, where you have to pay your employees extra to cover CO2 taxes. Also, don't forget to give American manufacturers CO2 tax credit for exports, or you will make American exporting too expensive. But doing that leads to the insane result that shipping American goods overseas, buying it there, then shipping it back, is cheaper than buying it locally. (No one pays tariffs on small imports when you buy on Ebay for example, only bulk imports are taxed.) That's why "why not" - it's simply too complicated. (I'm all for it mind you, if it could be done. But I don't think it can be done.)

shitgoose 10y ago

http://weather-warehouse.com/WeatherHistory/PastWeatherData_NorthPole_NorthPole_AK_January.html http://weather-warehouse.com/WeatherHistory/PastWeatherData_... paste the table to excel and chart first two columns (we are still to beat warm winters of 1981 and 1985). what is insane it the wapo headline.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
nwrk 10y ago
Go and speak with people living around glaciers. ie. Argentina,Chile,Peru. Ask for 5 years old pictures. Compare with present and optionaly with your excel. EDIT: some relevant photos http://www.peruviantimes.com/20/global-warming-impact-perus-pastoruri-glacier-recedes-into-two-patches-of-ice/70/2070/ http://www.peruviantimes.com/20/global-warming-impact-perus-...
strictnein 10y ago
Easier: Just use the table on that page to sort. 2016 isn't anything extraordinary.
calibration263 10y ago
These temperatures are for North Pole Fairbanks Alaska. It's not "The North Pole", it's also not even in the Arctic Circle.In fact if you look at the first picture in the linked article, you'll see how the deltas they're referring to are not the case in Alaska. (And the temperature in the middle of Alaska doesn't have much bearing on Arctic sea ice).
- shitgoose 10y ago
  damn google! i stand corrected:)

nwrk 10y ago

Extremely scary. Even junior sysadmin seeing chart[1] like this one in article would say something wrong with the 'system'. [1] https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp-content/uploads/sites/43/2016/11/meanT_2016.png https://img.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp-co...

brandmeyer 10y ago

Lest anyone claim that this is a short-term excursion, temperatures in the arctic have been well above average all season. http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php http://ocean.dmi.dk/arctic/meant80n.uk.php

Benjamin_Dobell 10y ago

Degrees fahrenheit... Probably don't need to start your doomsday prepping just yet.

castratikron 10y ago

I never thought I'd see a gnuplot graph in a mainstream news piece. Gnuplot is seriously awesome, though.