5 ms·

Yes, it's totally a design problem that users are fucking with files in a system hidden folder. I do that all the time, easy mistake to make.

zymhan 10y ago
More like editing some config file under the WSL folder with Notepad++ and discovering you destroyed it.
- tokenizerrr 10y ago
  > WSL folder Which has both the hidden and the system flag set. You have to change two explorer settings to even access the directory, one of said changed gives you a prompt warning you that it might be dangerous to enable it.
vacri 10y ago
This is the bullshit I really don't miss from the Windows world. *nix: "Go for it, edit what you want, just be aware you can fuck up" Windows: "what the fuck are you doing in the special area? get out!"
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  The only difference in assumption is that Linux users can safely assume most Linux users kinda know what they're doing. This is not true for Windows, where the default assumption is, you probably don't know what you're doing. ;) When you do know what you're doing, nobody complains about you going in the crevices. One of my favorite Windows v. Linux things is when Linux users try to work in Windows, and try and do things that would be perfectly normal in Linux, and then wonder why their Windows box is so unstable. I once ran across someone who tried putting their Windows\system32 folder into a version control app. When their Windows registry exploded spectacularly, their response was that this was a normal thing to do on a Linux box. Windows and Linux take very different engineering approaches to things, so skills developed in one don't necessarily translate well to the other.
  - wfunction 10y ago
    That sounds obscene even to my Linux ears... why would it be a good idea to version control the system directory in any OS?
    - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
      Presumably to be able to track changes and undo them if a set of changes causes a problem? I was kinda skeptical. But I certainly wasn't blaming Microsoft, like he was, for his system being unstable. =P
    - JdeBP 10y ago
      The person may have thought that \Windows\System32 was the moral equivalent of /etc , and expected to be able to do with it what people do to /etc with tools like etckeeper. And, of course, ZFS boot environments are the same sort of idea to an extent.
- geofft 10y ago
  Do you remember the hue and cry when deleting things from efivarfs could brick your machine, and it was somehow systemd's fault for making these files available and not locking out end users for their own protection? https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402
  - zymhan 10y ago
    To be fair, that broke the paradigm of your OS not being able to brick your hardware. This had rarely been an issue before, and most people would have assumed it wasn't even possible.
    - geofft 10y ago
      Sure. But I feel like I remember warnings in the mid-'90s about bad modelines in XF86Config being able to cause smoke to come out of your monitor....
- lixquid 10y ago
  Isn't that the whole point of this post though? They've allowed you to edit files marked as "system files" despite a multitude of warnings, and now so many people have fucked up doing so that they've issued a stronger warning. What's the solution? Put less warnings? Then you'd get even more people destroying their data. Put more warnings? Then you'd get more people complaining that "Windows doesn't let you edit what you want!". It doesn't really seem like they can win.
  - vacri 10y ago
    I'm more talking about the culture between the two types of OS than this specific occurrence. The whole attitude of "well, why the fuck were you in there anyway?" is not something I've encountered in *nix.
    - Karunamon 10y ago
      Windows at least has the decency to warn you that you're about ready to trash something. Every -nix ever will let me blow /sbin/init away with a carelessly placed file operation without so much as a "hey". Uneducated users should be responded to with "WTF were you doing?" as computer is a precision machine and it is not unreasonable to expect some basic level of literacy.
      - vacri 10y ago
        vacri@thingy:~$ rm /sbin/init rm: cannot remove ‘/sbin/init’: Permission denied I don't seem to be able to blow away /sbin/init. If I've elevated myself to be a global administrative user, then I should be able to do global administrative things, without being treated as an 'uneducated user'. > it is not unreasonable to expect some basic level of literacy I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect some level of literacy for administrative-level tasks, and that's what nix does.
- ncallaway 10y ago
  Isn't the entire point of the post to say that if you edit these files, be aware that you can fuck up (and here's how you can fuck up)?
  - vacri 10y ago
    I'm responding to mona3000, not the post.
- Kipters 10y ago
  they aren't telling you to don't touch them, they're telling you to don't touch them FROM THE WINDOWS SIDE. Start a bash instance and use vi/emacs/nano/ed/whatever to edit it from the Linux side.
  - vacri 10y ago
    You might want to understand my point before you start 'shouting' at me.
    - Kipters 10y ago
      I'm sorry, I didn't want to appear rude, I just couldn't remember how to italicize text here on HN and tried to emphasize those words. By the way, here they're just telling you to stop messing with those files in a certain way because it isn't a supported scenario in a beta software, also giving you the reason why it isn't supported. By the way, I bet that thing isn't among the top 10 priorities.

zymhan 10y ago

More like editing some config file under the WSL folder with Notepad++ and discovering you destroyed it.

tokenizerrr 10y ago
> WSL folder Which has both the hidden and the system flag set. You have to change two explorer settings to even access the directory, one of said changed gives you a prompt warning you that it might be dangerous to enable it.

vacri 10y ago

This is the bullshit I really don't miss from the Windows world. *nix: "Go for it, edit what you want, just be aware you can fuck up" Windows: "what the fuck are you doing in the special area? get out!"

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
The only difference in assumption is that Linux users can safely assume most Linux users kinda know what they're doing. This is not true for Windows, where the default assumption is, you probably don't know what you're doing. ;) When you do know what you're doing, nobody complains about you going in the crevices. One of my favorite Windows v. Linux things is when Linux users try to work in Windows, and try and do things that would be perfectly normal in Linux, and then wonder why their Windows box is so unstable. I once ran across someone who tried putting their Windows\system32 folder into a version control app. When their Windows registry exploded spectacularly, their response was that this was a normal thing to do on a Linux box. Windows and Linux take very different engineering approaches to things, so skills developed in one don't necessarily translate well to the other.
- wfunction 10y ago
  That sounds obscene even to my Linux ears... why would it be a good idea to version control the system directory in any OS?
  - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
    Presumably to be able to track changes and undo them if a set of changes causes a problem? I was kinda skeptical. But I certainly wasn't blaming Microsoft, like he was, for his system being unstable. =P
  - JdeBP 10y ago
    The person may have thought that \Windows\System32 was the moral equivalent of /etc , and expected to be able to do with it what people do to /etc with tools like etckeeper. And, of course, ZFS boot environments are the same sort of idea to an extent.
geofft 10y ago
Do you remember the hue and cry when deleting things from efivarfs could brick your machine, and it was somehow systemd's fault for making these files available and not locking out end users for their own protection? https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402 https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/2402
- zymhan 10y ago
  To be fair, that broke the paradigm of your OS not being able to brick your hardware. This had rarely been an issue before, and most people would have assumed it wasn't even possible.
  - geofft 10y ago
    Sure. But I feel like I remember warnings in the mid-'90s about bad modelines in XF86Config being able to cause smoke to come out of your monitor....
lixquid 10y ago
Isn't that the whole point of this post though? They've allowed you to edit files marked as "system files" despite a multitude of warnings, and now so many people have fucked up doing so that they've issued a stronger warning. What's the solution? Put less warnings? Then you'd get even more people destroying their data. Put more warnings? Then you'd get more people complaining that "Windows doesn't let you edit what you want!". It doesn't really seem like they can win.
- vacri 10y ago
  I'm more talking about the culture between the two types of OS than this specific occurrence. The whole attitude of "well, why the fuck were you in there anyway?" is not something I've encountered in *nix.
  - Karunamon 10y ago
    Windows at least has the decency to warn you that you're about ready to trash something. Every -nix ever will let me blow /sbin/init away with a carelessly placed file operation without so much as a "hey". Uneducated users should be responded to with "WTF were you doing?" as computer is a precision machine and it is not unreasonable to expect some basic level of literacy.
    - vacri 10y ago
      vacri@thingy:~$ rm /sbin/init rm: cannot remove ‘/sbin/init’: Permission denied I don't seem to be able to blow away /sbin/init. If I've elevated myself to be a global administrative user, then I should be able to do global administrative things, without being treated as an 'uneducated user'. > it is not unreasonable to expect some basic level of literacy I think it's perfectly reasonable to expect some level of literacy for administrative-level tasks, and that's what nix does.
ncallaway 10y ago
Isn't the entire point of the post to say that if you edit these files, be aware that you can fuck up (and here's how you can fuck up)?
- vacri 10y ago
  I'm responding to mona3000, not the post.
Kipters 10y ago
they aren't telling you to don't touch them, they're telling you to don't touch them FROM THE WINDOWS SIDE. Start a bash instance and use vi/emacs/nano/ed/whatever to edit it from the Linux side.
- vacri 10y ago
  You might want to understand my point before you start 'shouting' at me.
  - Kipters 10y ago
    I'm sorry, I didn't want to appear rude, I just couldn't remember how to italicize text here on HN and tried to emphasize those words. By the way, here they're just telling you to stop messing with those files in a certain way because it isn't a supported scenario in a beta software, also giving you the reason why it isn't supported. By the way, I bet that thing isn't among the top 10 priorities.