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I can personally vouch that not all police are like this. I have a handful of family friends who are/or were police officers and they very strongly embody the v

I can personally vouch that not all police are like this. I have a handful of family friends who are/or were police officers and they very strongly embody the values of "serve and protect." Honestly, they would give their life if necessary to save a life however they obviously would try to avoid death. So while there are definitely horrible police officers, there are definitely a great deal of honest ones as well. Rather than rally against the police in general, we really should focus on identifying the sources of the horrible ones and how to develop more of the honest officers. Personally I believe this can only occur through transparency and accountability but that's just my 2 cents.

joesmo 10y ago
I agree. The only way to fix this is to remove immunity for all cops in all cases and start holding them responsible like we do regular citizens, if not to even more stringent rules. This is first and foremost a cultural problem however, one that is so ingrained in culture, especially legal culture, that I see no way of making headway. When a judge automatically believes what a police officer says and a police officer's testimony is worth more than a regular citizen's testimony in court, you're looking at challenging the whole system of justice we have as unfair, biased, and broken. I don't see a path to any reform that doesn't hit that conclusion in this country, especially when you're talking about reforming police or getting on a path to fair trials/sentencing. In the meantime, the cultural biases that lead to this are so strong and so highly ingrained, reinforced by racism and other divisive hate, that you'd have to throw out the whole idea of trial by jury (which is extremely outdated and especially unjust in modern society) to make headway. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying, until you have truly revolutionary change, all cops will be perceived as the absolute danger to life, limb, and property that they potentially are. That is unfortunate for the good ones, but that's life. I don't go around questioning whether members of other gangs like the Bloods or Crips have ill intent for me, so I certainly will not question whether members of the biggest, most heavily armed, most dangerous gang in the US have ill intent for me. I just assume they do because the majority do.
- Grishnakh 10y ago
  Actually, I'd worry less about the Bloods and the Crips: they're businesspeople, and as long as you aren't involved in their business (pushing drugs), you probably don't have too much to worry about. The police are a different story, because to them, we're all "the enemy".
  - joesmo 10y ago
    Absolutely. Sorry if this didn't come through clearly.
CWuestefeld 10y ago
While certainly true that not all cops are bad, my personal experience shows that it's not at all rare, either. Or if they're not "bad", at least they don't behave with the respect and responsibility that should attend the power they wield. A really significant portion of my "official" interactions with police have been negative. I've listed these here before: - I watched a friend being roughed up by cops. (not beaten, but physically pushed around) for absolutely no reason. - I've had evidence of a traffic violation fabricated against me. (full disclosure: I was guilty, but that doesn't excuse lying about evidence) - I've had police at a traffic stop curse at me and throw my documents. (I understand why he felt this way, but it was due to him making assumptions, starting with a belligerent attitude, and misreading the situation) - Some older kids were physically bullying me and a friend. We went to a cop for help, and the extent of his aid was to say to us "better watch out, they'll probably hit you again". Given the limited amount of interaction people normally have with police, the number of times this has happened to me says that I'm either a lightning rod for lousy cops, or the problem is more than just a few isolated bad eggs.

joesmo 10y ago

I agree. The only way to fix this is to remove immunity for all cops in all cases and start holding them responsible like we do regular citizens, if not to even more stringent rules. This is first and foremost a cultural problem however, one that is so ingrained in culture, especially legal culture, that I see no way of making headway. When a judge automatically believes what a police officer says and a police officer's testimony is worth more than a regular citizen's testimony in court, you're looking at challenging the whole system of justice we have as unfair, biased, and broken. I don't see a path to any reform that doesn't hit that conclusion in this country, especially when you're talking about reforming police or getting on a path to fair trials/sentencing. In the meantime, the cultural biases that lead to this are so strong and so highly ingrained, reinforced by racism and other divisive hate, that you'd have to throw out the whole idea of trial by jury (which is extremely outdated and especially unjust in modern society) to make headway. I'm not saying it's impossible. I'm just saying, until you have truly revolutionary change, all cops will be perceived as the absolute danger to life, limb, and property that they potentially are. That is unfortunate for the good ones, but that's life. I don't go around questioning whether members of other gangs like the Bloods or Crips have ill intent for me, so I certainly will not question whether members of the biggest, most heavily armed, most dangerous gang in the US have ill intent for me. I just assume they do because the majority do.

Grishnakh 10y ago
Actually, I'd worry less about the Bloods and the Crips: they're businesspeople, and as long as you aren't involved in their business (pushing drugs), you probably don't have too much to worry about. The police are a different story, because to them, we're all "the enemy".
- joesmo 10y ago
  Absolutely. Sorry if this didn't come through clearly.

CWuestefeld 10y ago

While certainly true that not all cops are bad, my personal experience shows that it's not at all rare, either. Or if they're not "bad", at least they don't behave with the respect and responsibility that should attend the power they wield. A really significant portion of my "official" interactions with police have been negative. I've listed these here before: - I watched a friend being roughed up by cops. (not beaten, but physically pushed around) for absolutely no reason. - I've had evidence of a traffic violation fabricated against me. (full disclosure: I was guilty, but that doesn't excuse lying about evidence) - I've had police at a traffic stop curse at me and throw my documents. (I understand why he felt this way, but it was due to him making assumptions, starting with a belligerent attitude, and misreading the situation) - Some older kids were physically bullying me and a friend. We went to a cop for help, and the extent of his aid was to say to us "better watch out, they'll probably hit you again". Given the limited amount of interaction people normally have with police, the number of times this has happened to me says that I'm either a lightning rod for lousy cops, or the problem is more than just a few isolated bad eggs.