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First you say I received my contract... Then you say But when I got here I discovered that I'm not allowed... Did you sign the contract? What did you agree

by edw519 17y ago

First you say I received my contract... Then you say But when I got here I discovered that I'm not allowed... Did you sign the contract? What did you agree to in writing? Do they have other constraints not specified in the contract? If so, are you legally required to be subject to those constraints? You may have rights you are not currently aware of. Sounds like you're beyond the point of soliciting personal and business advice and now your should seek legal advice. Find a competent attorney and have him review your contract. Have him help you understand your options. This probably should have been your first step. But it's still not too late to do this. Do it now. Understanding what your alternatives really are is the first step in a proper plan of action.

DeusExMachina 17y ago
>First you say >I received my contract... >Then you say >But when I got here I discovered that I'm not allowed... On my contract there is only the non competing clause. What I mean when I say "I discovered" is that they told me so by email after coming here. It is not something written on the contract. Asking a lawyer is exactly what I want to do now. The non competing clause in my contract is very short and in my opinion it does not enforce what they are trying to compel me to do (I don't have it with me now, but I read it several time to be sure). But that's only my opinion and I really need legal advice on this.
- nkohari 17y ago
  If it's not in your contract, it doesn't exist for the purposes of law. That's good, because it means they can't take claim of any IP from your startup (which is the most important thing). The common wisdom in the US is that if you don't use your employer's time, resources, or equipment, and you don't compete materially with them, you're fine. That being said, at least in the US, employment is at-will, and companies can fire you for pretty much any reason. Arguably, a side business is a large distraction. For example, what happens if someone needs support during business hours?
  - DeusExMachina 17y ago
    Actually I assured them that this will never be the case. I've done this before and never took time from other companies. I don't even check my startup email while I am at work. Given the kind of apps I develop (as of now) it nearly impossible that someone will need urgent support.
  - lena 17y ago
    That being said, at least in the US, employment is at-will, and companies can fire you for pretty much any reason. This is not the case in the Netherlands (where the OP is). Employees are fairly well protected here, apart from the first month or months. That's the "probation period" (proeftijd) when an employer can fire you for any reason. It is also likely that initially you are employed for one year, which means that the company is free to fire you after that year (it's not technically firing of course, just a contract that ends). After that, people usually get a permanent contract and firing gets more difficult.
- ErrantX 17y ago
  > On my contract there is only the non competing clause. If that is all there is then they don't have much legal grounds to limit you like this. It depends on how they define competing though as to whether this affects your startup or not - if your doing iPhone work for them it may count (that's probably why it's worth talking to a lawyer to find out). Anything else (non-competing work, outside consultancy and open source code) is irrelevant - unless it comes under employment laws for the country (highly unlikely).
- lena 17y ago
  If it is not in your contract there is no way they can dictate what you do in your own time. Even non-compete clauses are often dismissed in court (in the Netherlands) because they are overly restrictive for the employee. See for example http://jure.nl/bm2162 http://jure.nl/bm2162 Please do ask legal advice. There are lots of low-cost options for an initial opinion. Google "arbeidsrecht" and you'll find a few lawyers offering a first consult for free (check the google-ads as well).
bensummers 17y ago
Is legal action really going to help, especially when the initial contract was verbal? Legal disputes only work well when they are between equal parties. This employer/employee relationship is far from equal.
- DeusExMachina 17y ago
  This is why I'm reluctant to go on a legal way. I will ask advice to be sure, but I prefer not to go in any legal struggle, since I really can't afford it now.
- edw519 17y ago
  I am not suggesting legal action. I am suggesting legal advice. None of us should ever sign any contract or make any legal assumption without proper advice from an expert in this area. OP is probably no more aware of his rights and options than your customers understand how refactoring your code will affect their business. OP acted without legal support. But it may not be too late to fix it. He needs to find that out. That is all.
- adnam 17y ago
  Also, if you are a member of a union, they will probably have someone look over your contract for you for free. And if you get into a legal dispute, they can provide help. If you're not a member, you can probably join one for about 10€/month.

by edw519 17y ago

DeusExMachina 17y ago

>First you say >I received my contract... >Then you say >But when I got here I discovered that I'm not allowed... On my contract there is only the non competing clause. What I mean when I say "I discovered" is that they told me so by email after coming here. It is not something written on the contract. Asking a lawyer is exactly what I want to do now. The non competing clause in my contract is very short and in my opinion it does not enforce what they are trying to compel me to do (I don't have it with me now, but I read it several time to be sure). But that's only my opinion and I really need legal advice on this.

nkohari 17y ago
If it's not in your contract, it doesn't exist for the purposes of law. That's good, because it means they can't take claim of any IP from your startup (which is the most important thing). The common wisdom in the US is that if you don't use your employer's time, resources, or equipment, and you don't compete materially with them, you're fine. That being said, at least in the US, employment is at-will, and companies can fire you for pretty much any reason. Arguably, a side business is a large distraction. For example, what happens if someone needs support during business hours?
- DeusExMachina 17y ago
  Actually I assured them that this will never be the case. I've done this before and never took time from other companies. I don't even check my startup email while I am at work. Given the kind of apps I develop (as of now) it nearly impossible that someone will need urgent support.
- lena 17y ago
  That being said, at least in the US, employment is at-will, and companies can fire you for pretty much any reason. This is not the case in the Netherlands (where the OP is). Employees are fairly well protected here, apart from the first month or months. That's the "probation period" (proeftijd) when an employer can fire you for any reason. It is also likely that initially you are employed for one year, which means that the company is free to fire you after that year (it's not technically firing of course, just a contract that ends). After that, people usually get a permanent contract and firing gets more difficult.
ErrantX 17y ago
> On my contract there is only the non competing clause. If that is all there is then they don't have much legal grounds to limit you like this. It depends on how they define competing though as to whether this affects your startup or not - if your doing iPhone work for them it may count (that's probably why it's worth talking to a lawyer to find out). Anything else (non-competing work, outside consultancy and open source code) is irrelevant - unless it comes under employment laws for the country (highly unlikely).
lena 17y ago
If it is not in your contract there is no way they can dictate what you do in your own time. Even non-compete clauses are often dismissed in court (in the Netherlands) because they are overly restrictive for the employee. See for example http://jure.nl/bm2162 http://jure.nl/bm2162 Please do ask legal advice. There are lots of low-cost options for an initial opinion. Google "arbeidsrecht" and you'll find a few lawyers offering a first consult for free (check the google-ads as well).

bensummers 17y ago

Is legal action really going to help, especially when the initial contract was verbal? Legal disputes only work well when they are between equal parties. This employer/employee relationship is far from equal.

DeusExMachina 17y ago
This is why I'm reluctant to go on a legal way. I will ask advice to be sure, but I prefer not to go in any legal struggle, since I really can't afford it now.
edw519 17y ago
I am not suggesting legal action. I am suggesting legal advice. None of us should ever sign any contract or make any legal assumption without proper advice from an expert in this area. OP is probably no more aware of his rights and options than your customers understand how refactoring your code will affect their business. OP acted without legal support. But it may not be too late to fix it. He needs to find that out. That is all.
adnam 17y ago
Also, if you are a member of a union, they will probably have someone look over your contract for you for free. And if you get into a legal dispute, they can provide help. If you're not a member, you can probably join one for about 10€/month.