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I like Zcash. I think it's a good solution to a problem that Bitcoin did not solve, and creates a cryptocurrency more in line with the vision spelled out in A C

I like Zcash. I think it's a good solution to a problem that Bitcoin did not solve, and creates a cryptocurrency more in line with the vision spelled out in A Cyperpunk's Manifesto than the previous attempts. (Yes, I've looked at the other attempts to build a private alternative to Bitcoin, including Monero: https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/1271 https://github.com/monero-project/monero/issues/1271)

blueprint 10y ago
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- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Ar-Curunir 10y ago
  Your links have nothing to do with ZCash. ZCoin is a separate currency that is not related to ZCash. Before wondering why you're getting doenvoted, try to make sure that you're not saying incorrect things.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- exstudent2 10y ago
  zcoin is not zcash: https://forum.z.cash/t/psa-zcoin-is-not-zcash/1821 https://forum.z.cash/t/psa-zcoin-is-not-zcash/1821
- Bombthecat 10y ago
  Just another cash grab. I'm every time amazed that it still works.
  - alvarosm 10y ago
    Look around this thread's comments, they're all taken in
elif 10y ago
Yeah, but proof that (Beyond the 10% pre-mine) more ZEC are not being secretly generated for the creators relies upon trust in a cabal of six individuals based upon a "public" exhibition of genesis involving theatrical destruction of computers (whose video was supposed to be published but I can't find?) Even if they are 100% legitimate actors, the lack of absolute proof undermines the provenance. From my perspective, Zcash is technically a Fiat currency without the clout of a state backer. I'm sticking to bitcoin and ethereum :)
- CiPHPerCoder 10y ago
  What would you have done differently to solve the same problem they did?
  - elif 10y ago
    If I could come up with something better, they would have done that. Absence of a better solution does not imply any fitness of the proposed solution. Until such time that someone comes up with a better idea, I am sticking to public blockchains.
    - CiPHPerCoder 10y ago
      > If I could come up with something better, they would have done that. Don't give up so easily! If you're going to make a stance borne out of principle, why not follow through to outperform the suboptimal solution that you dislike so much? Innovate. Put some skin in the game. That's what I would do, anyway. As it stands: If any of the folks involved in the trusted setup was honest, then it's secure. It takes a 100% corruption to make it insecure. I think that's acceptable until a better solution is proposed.
      - pablovidal85 10y ago
        Why such a small group of people though?
        10y ago
plasticmachine 10y ago
Linking to that GitHub issue is pretty embarrassing for you. Not only can it not be practically exploited, per the author of that issue, but it looks like it's just using Keccak as a stream cipher of sorts (but seeding it from /dev/urandom). That's pretty ok, and if we don't trust stream ciphers to produce pseudorandom numbers we have much bigger issues. But more importantly, the contributors acknowledged the issue, and are fixing it. Do you honestly expect bug free open-source development? No, and the entire benefit of it being a welcoming open-source development community (instead of ZCash's centralised development team) is that it is made better by many eyes. Hopefully the OP that opened that issue spends some more time reviewing the code along with the 160+ Monero contributors. Also, if we're going to view lapses like these as representative of a major failure, you'd best review some of ZCash's greatest hits, maybe starting with the fact that wallet encryption is ENTIRELY DISABLED in ZCash, and your wallets are stored in the clear and ready for malware to steal: https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1552 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1552 - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/713 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/713 <- this one is particularly stupid, and shows a gross misunderstanding of how Bitcoin works - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1304 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1304 - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1522 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1522 - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1779 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1779 <- literally, they had ONE JOB for the release, how did they fail at that? - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/commit/f8ada2435bd3f6b7a1165eae5fdfd6ac8a96f018 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/commit/f8ada2435bd3f6b7a1165e... <- oh that's right, they failed at the one thing they had to do because they were focused on other...uhhh...important stuff And let's not forget the massive attack surface that ZCash has, which leads to fun things like this: - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/98 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/98 - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/178 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/178
- CiPHPerCoder 10y ago
  > it looks like it's just using Keccak as a stream cipher of sorts (but seeding it from /dev/urandom). That's pretty ok, and if we don't trust stream ciphers to produce pseudorandom numbers we have much bigger issues. I very strongly disagree with userspace RNGs being used instead of the kernel's CSPRNG being "pretty ok". Don't "seed a userspace RNG from urandom". Just use urandom.

blueprint 10y ago

…

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Ar-Curunir 10y ago
Your links have nothing to do with ZCash. ZCoin is a separate currency that is not related to ZCash. Before wondering why you're getting doenvoted, try to make sure that you're not saying incorrect things.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
exstudent2 10y ago
zcoin is not zcash: https://forum.z.cash/t/psa-zcoin-is-not-zcash/1821 https://forum.z.cash/t/psa-zcoin-is-not-zcash/1821
Bombthecat 10y ago
Just another cash grab. I'm every time amazed that it still works.
- alvarosm 10y ago
  Look around this thread's comments, they're all taken in

elif 10y ago

Yeah, but proof that (Beyond the 10% pre-mine) more ZEC are not being secretly generated for the creators relies upon trust in a cabal of six individuals based upon a "public" exhibition of genesis involving theatrical destruction of computers (whose video was supposed to be published but I can't find?) Even if they are 100% legitimate actors, the lack of absolute proof undermines the provenance. From my perspective, Zcash is technically a Fiat currency without the clout of a state backer. I'm sticking to bitcoin and ethereum :)

CiPHPerCoder 10y ago
What would you have done differently to solve the same problem they did?
- elif 10y ago
  If I could come up with something better, they would have done that. Absence of a better solution does not imply any fitness of the proposed solution. Until such time that someone comes up with a better idea, I am sticking to public blockchains.
  - CiPHPerCoder 10y ago
    > If I could come up with something better, they would have done that. Don't give up so easily! If you're going to make a stance borne out of principle, why not follow through to outperform the suboptimal solution that you dislike so much? Innovate. Put some skin in the game. That's what I would do, anyway. As it stands: If any of the folks involved in the trusted setup was honest, then it's secure. It takes a 100% corruption to make it insecure. I think that's acceptable until a better solution is proposed.
    - pablovidal85 10y ago
      Why such a small group of people though?
      - 10y ago

plasticmachine 10y ago

Linking to that GitHub issue is pretty embarrassing for you. Not only can it not be practically exploited, per the author of that issue, but it looks like it's just using Keccak as a stream cipher of sorts (but seeding it from /dev/urandom). That's pretty ok, and if we don't trust stream ciphers to produce pseudorandom numbers we have much bigger issues. But more importantly, the contributors acknowledged the issue, and are fixing it. Do you honestly expect bug free open-source development? No, and the entire benefit of it being a welcoming open-source development community (instead of ZCash's centralised development team) is that it is made better by many eyes. Hopefully the OP that opened that issue spends some more time reviewing the code along with the 160+ Monero contributors. Also, if we're going to view lapses like these as representative of a major failure, you'd best review some of ZCash's greatest hits, maybe starting with the fact that wallet encryption is ENTIRELY DISABLED in ZCash, and your wallets are stored in the clear and ready for malware to steal: https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1552 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1552 - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/713 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/713 <- this one is particularly stupid, and shows a gross misunderstanding of how Bitcoin works - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1304 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1304 - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1522 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1522 - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1779 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/1779 <- literally, they had ONE JOB for the release, how did they fail at that? - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/commit/f8ada2435bd3f6b7a1165eae5fdfd6ac8a96f018 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/commit/f8ada2435bd3f6b7a1165e... <- oh that's right, they failed at the one thing they had to do because they were focused on other...uhhh...important stuff And let's not forget the massive attack surface that ZCash has, which leads to fun things like this: - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/98 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/98 - https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/178 https://github.com/zcash/zcash/issues/178

CiPHPerCoder 10y ago
> it looks like it's just using Keccak as a stream cipher of sorts (but seeding it from /dev/urandom). That's pretty ok, and if we don't trust stream ciphers to produce pseudorandom numbers we have much bigger issues. I very strongly disagree with userspace RNGs being used instead of the kernel's CSPRNG being "pretty ok". Don't "seed a userspace RNG from urandom". Just use urandom.