4 ms·

Well, of course there's really no such thing as race to begin with, it's a big bag of various cultural and historical prejudices with all kinds of different peo

Well, of course there's really no such thing as race to begin with, it's a big bag of various cultural and historical prejudices with all kinds of different people thrown together into arbitrary "races". Racism had to be invented to justify slavery and colonialism.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
I'm with you on the prejudice part. But pedantically, its not so easy to dismiss 'race'. We see strong genetic pooling around the world. We can make up a new word for that, or use the one we have. Unfortunately the current word has been muddied by history.
- mikeash 10y ago
  There certainly are genetic differences around the world, but they line up only vaguely with race. If race were about genetics, then there would be a ton of different races in Africa, and we'd probably lump all other people under one "non-African" race. My favorite way to illustrate the arbitrary nature of race is to ask what the race is of our current (alas, soon to be former) president. Typically the answer is "black." Yet his mother was "white." If it were genetic, we'd say he was mixed, but we're still operating under the influence of old arbitrary rules where having just a small amount of black ancestry makes you "black."
  - omonra 10y ago
    The answer to your question is 'black' because of political correctness. This is a great example of why it's pernicious - as it robs us of ability to describe the world. There is actually a more appropriate term - 'mulatto' which was specifically created to describe people born to black / white parents. Today it's considered 'dated and offensive', so we don't have a 'polite' and 'correct' way to describe the ethnicity of our (current) President. Would you deny the existence of dog breeds because there exist labradoodles or any other mixes?
    - mikeash 10y ago
      Wow, blaming political correctness for the idea that black ancestry makes someone black. You might find this to be enlightening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypodescent#Hypo.2Fhyperdescent_in_Colonial_Era_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypodescent#Hypo.2Fhyperdescen... The idea that a mixed-race person is considered to be a member of only one of their parents' races long predates people's unwillingness to use "mulatto." And the idea that people must call him "black" because they're not allowed to say "mulatto" is absurd. "Mixed" would describe it without causing any offense, as would "half white, half black." I remain amazed at how insistent some people are that the lingering consequences of centuries of racial injustice in this country are somehow caused by "political correctness" in the past few decades.
    - greglindahl 10y ago
      Even before mulatto fell out of use, most white people called anyone with "a single drop of black blood" black. I grew up an a racist part of the southern US, and I assure you that my neighbors would have considered "mulatto" to be a kind of black person.
      - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
        Strangely, we still do that. Imagine if a 'single drop of white blood' (whatever that means) meant you were white. Then America would be 99% white?
    - fallingfrog 10y ago
      You know, every time I hear somebody complain about "political correctness" they follow it up by saying something really ugly and inaccurate. Then they complain, "gee, isn't it too bad that people don't let us use these dated terms anymore?". The reason we don't use the term "mulatto" is that there are a whole bunch of wrong assumptions rolled into that word. That there is any such thing as mixed vs pure race, for instance. The distinction is wrong. I mean, yeah it takes away your ability to describe the world a certain way, but it's because that way of describing the world is historically linked with murder, genocide, and slavery!
  - ghshephard 10y ago
    I find it difficult to believe anybody would throw out "black" as a race. That's about as specific as saying my heritage is "white". From: http://www.arogundade.com/is-barack-obama-black-or-mixed-race.html http://www.arogundade.com/is-barack-obama-black-or-mixed-rac... Barack Obama's ... was born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii. His parents were of contrasting ethnic backgrounds. His mother, the late Stanley Ann Dunham, was born in Wichita, Kansas. She was an American of English and Irish ancestry. Obama’s father, the late Barack Obama Sr., was born in Kenya’s Nyanza Province. He was of African heritage, belonging to an ethnic group called the Luo. They make up Kenya’s third largest ethnic group, with other members scattered across eastern Uganda and northern Tanzania.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      Just google "first african american president" and watch the results roll in. "African American" is just a modern euphemism for "black," or at least "black American."
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JoeAltmaier 10y ago

I'm with you on the prejudice part. But pedantically, its not so easy to dismiss 'race'. We see strong genetic pooling around the world. We can make up a new word for that, or use the one we have. Unfortunately the current word has been muddied by history.

mikeash 10y ago
There certainly are genetic differences around the world, but they line up only vaguely with race. If race were about genetics, then there would be a ton of different races in Africa, and we'd probably lump all other people under one "non-African" race. My favorite way to illustrate the arbitrary nature of race is to ask what the race is of our current (alas, soon to be former) president. Typically the answer is "black." Yet his mother was "white." If it were genetic, we'd say he was mixed, but we're still operating under the influence of old arbitrary rules where having just a small amount of black ancestry makes you "black."
- omonra 10y ago
  The answer to your question is 'black' because of political correctness. This is a great example of why it's pernicious - as it robs us of ability to describe the world. There is actually a more appropriate term - 'mulatto' which was specifically created to describe people born to black / white parents. Today it's considered 'dated and offensive', so we don't have a 'polite' and 'correct' way to describe the ethnicity of our (current) President. Would you deny the existence of dog breeds because there exist labradoodles or any other mixes?
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Wow, blaming political correctness for the idea that black ancestry makes someone black. You might find this to be enlightening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypodescent#Hypo.2Fhyperdescent_in_Colonial_Era_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypodescent#Hypo.2Fhyperdescen... The idea that a mixed-race person is considered to be a member of only one of their parents' races long predates people's unwillingness to use "mulatto." And the idea that people must call him "black" because they're not allowed to say "mulatto" is absurd. "Mixed" would describe it without causing any offense, as would "half white, half black." I remain amazed at how insistent some people are that the lingering consequences of centuries of racial injustice in this country are somehow caused by "political correctness" in the past few decades.
  - greglindahl 10y ago
    Even before mulatto fell out of use, most white people called anyone with "a single drop of black blood" black. I grew up an a racist part of the southern US, and I assure you that my neighbors would have considered "mulatto" to be a kind of black person.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      Strangely, we still do that. Imagine if a 'single drop of white blood' (whatever that means) meant you were white. Then America would be 99% white?
  - fallingfrog 10y ago
    You know, every time I hear somebody complain about "political correctness" they follow it up by saying something really ugly and inaccurate. Then they complain, "gee, isn't it too bad that people don't let us use these dated terms anymore?". The reason we don't use the term "mulatto" is that there are a whole bunch of wrong assumptions rolled into that word. That there is any such thing as mixed vs pure race, for instance. The distinction is wrong. I mean, yeah it takes away your ability to describe the world a certain way, but it's because that way of describing the world is historically linked with murder, genocide, and slavery!
- ghshephard 10y ago
  I find it difficult to believe anybody would throw out "black" as a race. That's about as specific as saying my heritage is "white". From: http://www.arogundade.com/is-barack-obama-black-or-mixed-race.html http://www.arogundade.com/is-barack-obama-black-or-mixed-rac... Barack Obama's ... was born on August 4, 1961 in Honolulu, Hawaii. His parents were of contrasting ethnic backgrounds. His mother, the late Stanley Ann Dunham, was born in Wichita, Kansas. She was an American of English and Irish ancestry. Obama’s father, the late Barack Obama Sr., was born in Kenya’s Nyanza Province. He was of African heritage, belonging to an ethnic group called the Luo. They make up Kenya’s third largest ethnic group, with other members scattered across eastern Uganda and northern Tanzania.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    Just google "first african american president" and watch the results roll in. "African American" is just a modern euphemism for "black," or at least "black American."

deleted 10y ago

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