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And the taco-bowl picture is captioned with "I love Hispanics!" Most people don't talk this way, but everything he says about minorities lumps them together: "

by SamBam 10y ago

And the taco-bowl picture is captioned with "I love Hispanics!" Most people don't talk this way, but everything he says about minorities lumps them together: "The Hispanics." "The Blacks." "The Muslims." > “I have a great relationship with the blacks, I’ve always had a great relationship with the blacks.” [1] > “The Hispanics are going to get those jobs, and they’re going to love Trump.” [2] > “I’m doing good for the Muslims,” [3] [1] http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/04/14/6471219-trump-i-have-a-great-relationship-with-the-blacks http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2011/04/14/6471219-trump-... [2] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-border_us_55b17c0be4b0224d8831ac3a http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-border_us_5... [3] http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/politics/donald-trump-don-lemon-cnn-interview/ http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/09/politics/donald-trump-don-lemo...

jerf 10y ago
"If you classify people into ethnic groups, you're a racist" is waaaay too powerful to use to prove "Trump is a racist". Unless you're willing to accept that pretty much everyone is a racist. Which perhaps some people are ready to accept, but it's not a very useful classification at that point.
- SamBam 10y ago
  It's more that showing him tweeting "I love Hispanics" is an unintentionally hilarious way try to prove that someone isn't racist.
  - iainmerrick 10y ago
    I'm seeing this criticism in a few places, but in context, it's a strong argument, and in fact a nice summary of the piece as a whole: What if there’s a candidate who does something more like, say, go to a KKK meeting and say that black people are inferior and only whites are real Americans? We might want to use words like “openly racist” or “openly white supremacist” to describe him. And at that point, nobody will listen, because we wasted “openly white supremacist” on the guy who tweets pictures of himself eating a taco on Cinco de Mayo while saying “I love Hispanics!” In other words, if this guy is already a 10 on the racism scale, what do we do when somebody even worse turns up? Do a Spinal Tap and turn it up to 11?
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      People didn't call him a racist for tweeting the taco bowl. Here a leftist rag mocks him for it without throwing around much racist at all: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-taco-bowl_us_572bf20be4b096e9f090e1c5 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-taco-bowl_u... This one, no accusations of racism: http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/5/11603760/donald-trump-taco-bowl-tweet http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/5/11603760/donald-trump-taco-... Nope: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-05/donald-trump-celebrates-cinco-de-mayo-by-eating-a-taco-bowl-declaring-love-for-hispanics http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-05/donald-trump-... Only the tweet from W. Kamau Bell: http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/05/politics/donald-trump-taco-bowl-cinco-de-mayo/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/05/politics/donald-trump-taco-bow... The reaction to it wasn't OMG that proves he hates hispanics, it was WTF. So what it boils down to is that when a guy who might be racist eats a taco, all you learn from the eating of the taco is that a taco was eaten. The tweet isn't relevant to answering the question. It's noise, it's not evidence in either direction.
- carapace 10y ago
  I'll speak to this point, because it's subtle but important. The essence of racism is the refusal or inability to understand others as fully human. It's possible to be racist without hate. My father didn't hate Chinese people, he liked them and respected them, but he couldn't quite see them as the same as him in the fundamental way. He said once, "Chinamen make good citizens." When I visited New York City, I noticed that the races got along but self-segregated. I went to a large business cafe and all the tables were each one "race": Blacks, Whites, Asians, Hispanics. Growing up in San Francisco my friends and all the people I knew were pretty eclectic: Hawaiian-born Chinese, Mexican-American Mormon, Japanese/White (his mom called herself a "rice-clackah" ("cracker" is a racial pejorative for White, and Japanese people stereotypically have trouble pronouncing the 'r' sound) she loved scandalizing people with that...), Black bi-sexual, etc..., and none of us every really "tripped" on it. We were all just people hanging out together. Like Sesame Street, we were the real thing of what you see on Sesame Street. I don't want to be all East Coast v. West Coast, but I definitely feel weird when I hear people talk about "I love the Blacks." "BLACK people" vs. "black PEOPLE" To quote Bob Marley (quoting Haile Selassie): "Until the colour of a man's skin / Is of no more significance / than the colour of his eyes" And here's Albert Einstein: "A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
  - jerf 10y ago
    That's true and all, but classifying people into ethnic groups is not evidence that any of what you said is true about a specific person. I don't think it disproves anything about what I said... if you're going to say that classifying people into ethnic groups is sufficient to call someone racist, you've made everyone racist. Which may be true for that definition of racism, but it's then not useful to say that Trump is racist in that sense. I don't think most people are looking to use definitions of racism that classify Hillary and the entire Democratic political strategy as "racist". Applying that definition selectively is just more wolf-crying.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
EvilTerran 10y ago
Sociology has a very relevant concept - "labelling": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labeling_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labeling_theory

by SamBam 10y ago

jerf 10y ago

"If you classify people into ethnic groups, you're a racist" is waaaay too powerful to use to prove "Trump is a racist". Unless you're willing to accept that pretty much everyone is a racist. Which perhaps some people are ready to accept, but it's not a very useful classification at that point.

SamBam 10y ago
It's more that showing him tweeting "I love Hispanics" is an unintentionally hilarious way try to prove that someone isn't racist.
- iainmerrick 10y ago
  I'm seeing this criticism in a few places, but in context, it's a strong argument, and in fact a nice summary of the piece as a whole: What if there’s a candidate who does something more like, say, go to a KKK meeting and say that black people are inferior and only whites are real Americans? We might want to use words like “openly racist” or “openly white supremacist” to describe him. And at that point, nobody will listen, because we wasted “openly white supremacist” on the guy who tweets pictures of himself eating a taco on Cinco de Mayo while saying “I love Hispanics!” In other words, if this guy is already a 10 on the racism scale, what do we do when somebody even worse turns up? Do a Spinal Tap and turn it up to 11?
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    People didn't call him a racist for tweeting the taco bowl. Here a leftist rag mocks him for it without throwing around much racist at all: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-taco-bowl_us_572bf20be4b096e9f090e1c5 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/donald-trump-taco-bowl_u... This one, no accusations of racism: http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/5/11603760/donald-trump-taco-bowl-tweet http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/5/11603760/donald-trump-taco-... Nope: http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-05/donald-trump-celebrates-cinco-de-mayo-by-eating-a-taco-bowl-declaring-love-for-hispanics http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-05-05/donald-trump-... Only the tweet from W. Kamau Bell: http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/05/politics/donald-trump-taco-bowl-cinco-de-mayo/index.html http://www.cnn.com/2016/05/05/politics/donald-trump-taco-bow... The reaction to it wasn't OMG that proves he hates hispanics, it was WTF. So what it boils down to is that when a guy who might be racist eats a taco, all you learn from the eating of the taco is that a taco was eaten. The tweet isn't relevant to answering the question. It's noise, it's not evidence in either direction.
carapace 10y ago
I'll speak to this point, because it's subtle but important. The essence of racism is the refusal or inability to understand others as fully human. It's possible to be racist without hate. My father didn't hate Chinese people, he liked them and respected them, but he couldn't quite see them as the same as him in the fundamental way. He said once, "Chinamen make good citizens." When I visited New York City, I noticed that the races got along but self-segregated. I went to a large business cafe and all the tables were each one "race": Blacks, Whites, Asians, Hispanics. Growing up in San Francisco my friends and all the people I knew were pretty eclectic: Hawaiian-born Chinese, Mexican-American Mormon, Japanese/White (his mom called herself a "rice-clackah" ("cracker" is a racial pejorative for White, and Japanese people stereotypically have trouble pronouncing the 'r' sound) she loved scandalizing people with that...), Black bi-sexual, etc..., and none of us every really "tripped" on it. We were all just people hanging out together. Like Sesame Street, we were the real thing of what you see on Sesame Street. I don't want to be all East Coast v. West Coast, but I definitely feel weird when I hear people talk about "I love the Blacks." "BLACK people" vs. "black PEOPLE" To quote Bob Marley (quoting Haile Selassie): "Until the colour of a man's skin / Is of no more significance / than the colour of his eyes" And here's Albert Einstein: "A human being is a part of the whole called by us universe, a part limited in time and space. He experiences himself, his thoughts and feeling as something separated from the rest, a kind of optical delusion of his consciousness. This delusion is a kind of prison for us, restricting us to our personal desires and to affection for a few persons nearest to us. Our task must be to free ourselves from this prison by widening our circle of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty."
- jerf 10y ago
  That's true and all, but classifying people into ethnic groups is not evidence that any of what you said is true about a specific person. I don't think it disproves anything about what I said... if you're going to say that classifying people into ethnic groups is sufficient to call someone racist, you've made everyone racist. Which may be true for that definition of racism, but it's then not useful to say that Trump is racist in that sense. I don't think most people are looking to use definitions of racism that classify Hillary and the entire Democratic political strategy as "racist". Applying that definition selectively is just more wolf-crying.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

EvilTerran 10y ago

Sociology has a very relevant concept - "labelling": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labeling_theory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labeling_theory