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That's not a source, that's a Google search. In fact even for your search no results come up (for me) that suggest what you claim. And I'm not even talking abou

by quonn 10y ago

That's not a source, that's a Google search. In fact even for your search no results come up (for me) that suggest what you claim. And I'm not even talking about the reputation of potential sources. I have actually made an effort and checked, for example Amnesty International for the time that Chavez was in power. I don't find evidence that he tortured most of his opponents, sorry.

nailer 10y ago
Yes, it is a Google search. That is a stellar observation. Using a search engine would have been less characters than asking me. For example, you could click: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Venezuela#2000s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Venezuela#2000... and read up this from Amnesty https://web.archive.org/web/20070922230635/http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR530032004?open&of=ENG-VEN https://web.archive.org/web/20070922230635/http://web.amnest... : > The security forces have reportedly used excessive force, and detained large numbers of opposition supporters, during nationwide street protests against the government of President Hugo Chavez. At least nine people have died and scores of others have been injured, including a number of police officers. Amnesty International is concerned that there may be further politically motivated violence, and disproportionate police response. or http://www.weeklystandard.com/horror-in-venezuela/article/3416 http://www.weeklystandard.com/horror-in-venezuela/article/34... (I haven't heard of Weekly Standard before though) > At the hospital he was detained by the DISIP, Chavez's secret police, and taken to their headquarters for questioning. > During his interrogation, fingernails in his left hand were torn out. After being further tortured and injected with drugs, the secret police took him into the bowels of the building and placed him in a cell. Or this from the BBC (I have heard of these): > Venezuela troops 'used torture' > Troops are accused of beating and kicking detainees Venezuelan ombudsman German Mundarain has said security forces tortured some protesters who were detained during recent anti-government demonstrations. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3571383.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3571383.stm Are you seriously claiming Chavez isn't a well known human rights abuser or are you debating what constitututes 'most' or 'an opponent' like whether that changes my point that Chavez used violence just as Mao and Pol Pot did and that most normal humans think that's a bad thing?
- quonn 10y ago
  For this thread I'm focusing on the claim that "Chavez tortured most of his opponents" and that he is supposedly comparable to Pot Pol (again a guy probably killed 1.6 human beings). These claims are ridiculous. Reports about occasional police violence (can even happen in the US) and single cases of torture (not from a reputable source) are not enough for such a broad claim.
  - nailer 10y ago
    Again: I'm simply grouping well known violent leaders, I am not comparing the scale of their violence. Pol Pot is also very different from Mao: again, that doesn't change the point about far-left leaders using violence existing or that most mainstream left folk wouldn't support this. Are you saying that Chavez isn't a torturer or that the BBC isn't a reliable source? If so I think I'll end this conversation here.

by quonn 10y ago

nailer 10y ago

Yes, it is a Google search. That is a stellar observation. Using a search engine would have been less characters than asking me. For example, you could click: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Venezuela#2000s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Venezuela#2000... and read up this from Amnesty https://web.archive.org/web/20070922230635/http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR530032004?open&of=ENG-VEN https://web.archive.org/web/20070922230635/http://web.amnest... : > The security forces have reportedly used excessive force, and detained large numbers of opposition supporters, during nationwide street protests against the government of President Hugo Chavez. At least nine people have died and scores of others have been injured, including a number of police officers. Amnesty International is concerned that there may be further politically motivated violence, and disproportionate police response. or http://www.weeklystandard.com/horror-in-venezuela/article/3416 http://www.weeklystandard.com/horror-in-venezuela/article/34... (I haven't heard of Weekly Standard before though) > At the hospital he was detained by the DISIP, Chavez's secret police, and taken to their headquarters for questioning. > During his interrogation, fingernails in his left hand were torn out. After being further tortured and injected with drugs, the secret police took him into the bowels of the building and placed him in a cell. Or this from the BBC (I have heard of these): > Venezuela troops 'used torture' > Troops are accused of beating and kicking detainees Venezuelan ombudsman German Mundarain has said security forces tortured some protesters who were detained during recent anti-government demonstrations. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3571383.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3571383.stm Are you seriously claiming Chavez isn't a well known human rights abuser or are you debating what constitututes 'most' or 'an opponent' like whether that changes my point that Chavez used violence just as Mao and Pol Pot did and that most normal humans think that's a bad thing?

quonn 10y ago
For this thread I'm focusing on the claim that "Chavez tortured most of his opponents" and that he is supposedly comparable to Pot Pol (again a guy probably killed 1.6 human beings). These claims are ridiculous. Reports about occasional police violence (can even happen in the US) and single cases of torture (not from a reputable source) are not enough for such a broad claim.
- nailer 10y ago
  Again: I'm simply grouping well known violent leaders, I am not comparing the scale of their violence. Pol Pot is also very different from Mao: again, that doesn't change the point about far-left leaders using violence existing or that most mainstream left folk wouldn't support this. Are you saying that Chavez isn't a torturer or that the BBC isn't a reliable source? If so I think I'll end this conversation here.