4 ms·

First of all, mixing Chavez in with Mao and Pol Pot is ridiculous. Pol Pot is responsible for killing 1.6 million people. He ran labor camps, etc. Please name h

by quonn 10y ago

First of all, mixing Chavez in with Mao and Pol Pot is ridiculous. Pol Pot is responsible for killing 1.6 million people. He ran labor camps, etc. Please name how many people were killed on purpose on orders of Chavez. Please name a labor camp. I'm not even sure if Mao should be directly compared to Pol Pot. Probably not. Second, the Labour party has been social democratic for at least 30 years. It cannot be compared to communist parties at all.

nailer 10y ago
Chavez tortured most of his opponents. No killing fields, or year 0, but advocating and using violence for political purposes is clearly a connection. Obviously, Momentum aside, Labour is against such ideas, that was precisely my point. Edit: you edited your post to add: > "Pol Pot is responsible for killing 1.6 million people. He ran labor camps, etc. Please name how many people were killed on purpose on orders of Chavez. Please name a labor camp." ...after I added multiple sources showing Chavez using torture and other forms violence. Nobody claims Chavez was as violent as the others - in fact, I specifically claimed the opposite in my reply before you edited your post. Merely that he used violence including torture.
- quonn 10y ago
  Please post sources for your claims. edit: I did not edit my post after you provided any sources! From the start it contained "Pol Pot is responsible for killing 1.6 million people. He ran labor camps, etc. Please name how many people were killed on purpose on orders of Chavez. Please name a labor camp."
  - nailer 10y ago
    http://gb.lmgtfy.com/?q=chavez+torture http://gb.lmgtfy.com/?q=chavez+torture
    - quonn 10y ago
      That's not a source, that's a Google search. In fact even for your search no results come up (for me) that suggest what you claim. And I'm not even talking about the reputation of potential sources. I have actually made an effort and checked, for example Amnesty International for the time that Chavez was in power. I don't find evidence that he tortured most of his opponents, sorry.
      - nailer 10y ago
        Yes, it is a Google search. That is a stellar observation. Using a search engine would have been less characters than asking me. For example, you could click: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Venezuela#2000s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Venezuela#2000... and read up this from Amnesty https://web.archive.org/web/20070922230635/http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR530032004?open&of=ENG-VEN https://web.archive.org/web/20070922230635/http://web.amnest... : > The security forces have reportedly used excessive force, and detained large numbers of opposition supporters, during nationwide street protests against the government of President Hugo Chavez. At least nine people have died and scores of others have been injured, including a number of police officers. Amnesty International is concerned that there may be further politically motivated violence, and disproportionate police response. or http://www.weeklystandard.com/horror-in-venezuela/article/3416 http://www.weeklystandard.com/horror-in-venezuela/article/34... (I haven't heard of Weekly Standard before though) > At the hospital he was detained by the DISIP, Chavez's secret police, and taken to their headquarters for questioning. > During his interrogation, fingernails in his left hand were torn out. After being further tortured and injected with drugs, the secret police took him into the bowels of the building and placed him in a cell. Or this from the BBC (I have heard of these): > Venezuela troops 'used torture' > Troops are accused of beating and kicking detainees Venezuelan ombudsman German Mundarain has said security forces tortured some protesters who were detained during recent anti-government demonstrations. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3571383.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3571383.stm Are you seriously claiming Chavez isn't a well known human rights abuser or are you debating what constitututes 'most' or 'an opponent' like whether that changes my point that Chavez used violence just as Mao and Pol Pot did and that most normal humans think that's a bad thing?

by quonn 10y ago

nailer 10y ago

Chavez tortured most of his opponents. No killing fields, or year 0, but advocating and using violence for political purposes is clearly a connection. Obviously, Momentum aside, Labour is against such ideas, that was precisely my point. Edit: you edited your post to add: > "Pol Pot is responsible for killing 1.6 million people. He ran labor camps, etc. Please name how many people were killed on purpose on orders of Chavez. Please name a labor camp." ...after I added multiple sources showing Chavez using torture and other forms violence. Nobody claims Chavez was as violent as the others - in fact, I specifically claimed the opposite in my reply before you edited your post. Merely that he used violence including torture.

quonn 10y ago
Please post sources for your claims. edit: I did not edit my post after you provided any sources! From the start it contained "Pol Pot is responsible for killing 1.6 million people. He ran labor camps, etc. Please name how many people were killed on purpose on orders of Chavez. Please name a labor camp."
- nailer 10y ago
  http://gb.lmgtfy.com/?q=chavez+torture http://gb.lmgtfy.com/?q=chavez+torture
  - quonn 10y ago
    That's not a source, that's a Google search. In fact even for your search no results come up (for me) that suggest what you claim. And I'm not even talking about the reputation of potential sources. I have actually made an effort and checked, for example Amnesty International for the time that Chavez was in power. I don't find evidence that he tortured most of his opponents, sorry.
    - nailer 10y ago
      Yes, it is a Google search. That is a stellar observation. Using a search engine would have been less characters than asking me. For example, you could click: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Venezuela#2000s https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Venezuela#2000... and read up this from Amnesty https://web.archive.org/web/20070922230635/http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR530032004?open&of=ENG-VEN https://web.archive.org/web/20070922230635/http://web.amnest... : > The security forces have reportedly used excessive force, and detained large numbers of opposition supporters, during nationwide street protests against the government of President Hugo Chavez. At least nine people have died and scores of others have been injured, including a number of police officers. Amnesty International is concerned that there may be further politically motivated violence, and disproportionate police response. or http://www.weeklystandard.com/horror-in-venezuela/article/3416 http://www.weeklystandard.com/horror-in-venezuela/article/34... (I haven't heard of Weekly Standard before though) > At the hospital he was detained by the DISIP, Chavez's secret police, and taken to their headquarters for questioning. > During his interrogation, fingernails in his left hand were torn out. After being further tortured and injected with drugs, the secret police took him into the bowels of the building and placed him in a cell. Or this from the BBC (I have heard of these): > Venezuela troops 'used torture' > Troops are accused of beating and kicking detainees Venezuelan ombudsman German Mundarain has said security forces tortured some protesters who were detained during recent anti-government demonstrations. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3571383.stm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/3571383.stm Are you seriously claiming Chavez isn't a well known human rights abuser or are you debating what constitututes 'most' or 'an opponent' like whether that changes my point that Chavez used violence just as Mao and Pol Pot did and that most normal humans think that's a bad thing?