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>that'll earn you a restriction on your license, barring you from driving a manual. It's probably fair, but almost everyone (myself included) chooses to practic

by akerro 10y ago

>that'll earn you a restriction on your license, barring you from driving a manual. It's probably fair, but almost everyone (myself included) chooses to practice in manuals It is fair. When you do motorcycle training for up-to 125cc, you can take a scooter which doesn't have gears, or motorcycle with gear. If you learn how to use gears you know how to ride a scooter, but if you take a scooter, you're not allowed to ride a motorcycle with gears. It's 100% fair, and it's logical.

ealexhudson 10y ago
This is only partly true. While it's correct for the A1 license (up to 125cc), if you have provisional + CBT you can do that training on an automatic bike and then go out and ride a geared bike for as long as you renew the CBT. Personally, I think it's a silly restriction. I learned gears on my own, if you know how to ride a bike it's not complicated to pick up - even in the CBT training they expect learners to pick it up in a half hour or so.
- peteretep 10y ago
  Very much worth noting that the CBT is a UK-only thing, and meaningless outside the UK.
  - akerro 10y ago
    Some EU countries don't require CBT-equivalent training to ride 125cc
barrkel 10y ago
In the UK at least, CBT is not geared vs automatic specific. If you do your basic training on a scooter, you can still ride a geared 125 unaccompanied on the road. The full test is specific though. The bigger issue with scooters vs geared bikes isn't the extra effort of using the gears, it's the much higher centre of gravity and (usually) wider turning circle of geared bikes that complicates manoeuvres. More forward planning is required to avoid tight turns that require high bank angle at low speed, turns that are easy on a scooter. The higher centre of gravity means it's trivial to drop the bike if braking while turning at slow speed. It's easy to hold up a scooter in the same situation.
- akerro 10y ago
  >In the UK at least, CBT is not geared vs automatic specific Of course it is, I was actually talking about UK. Bottom of CBT cert has a line "Moped / Motorcycle", if you have "Moped" ticked and want to ride a gear bike, you have to re-do the CBT on a gear bike.
  - barrkel 10y ago
    This is not correct. There was a review done of the training scheme and a recommendation was made to change this. But without legislation, the most the DVSA can do is "recommend that riders take further training if they want to ride a geared motorcycle". See item 6 in the table on page 8 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/442790/modernising_CBT_courses.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... FWIW, I think a staged CBT is a fine concept, especially in London, but there's a risk that an automatic-only CBT would make things worse because of the incentive structure. In a busy urban environment, focusing on the hazards on the road should be a much higher priority than mastering machine control. Spending time on a scooter is a fine way to adjust to this. Moving on to a geared bike is less problematic as the amount of new input and reactions that need to be dealt with at once is reduced. But a split between auto-only and geared CBTs would probably push more riders to go geared sooner rather than later (to avoid prematurely limiting their options), and increase overall risk on the road. I think this is part of the reason for the prevalence of geared cars on the roads in the UK. On the other side, if you learn to ride out in the countryside, there's no guarantee you'll be any good at handling the hazards of rush-hour metro traffic.
iamatworknow 10y ago
This is pretty interesting to hear as an American. The only restriction on motorcycle licenses in New York is whether or not your do your road test with two wheels or three (so if you take your test on something like a CanAm Spyder you'll have a 3 wheeler only restriction). You can pass your road test on a 125cc automatic scooter then turn right around and buy a Hayabusa or fully loaded GoldWing and ride it legally.
badthingfactory 10y ago
I don't agree with this. Driving a scooter/motorcycle is certainly different from driving an auto/manual car. Your comparison is closer to CDL/non-CDL. I've never heard of a situation where a person harmed themselves or others because they tried driving a manual transmission without knowing how to do so. People who don't know how to drive them simply don't drive them for one of two reasons: 1) they are too scared to try 2) they can't make it more than 2 feet without stalling. My sister and I both acquired licenses with automatic transmissions and eventually owned manuals. Being required to take a new test to acquire a new license to manually control the transmission would have been impractical and annoying.

by akerro 10y ago

ealexhudson 10y ago

This is only partly true. While it's correct for the A1 license (up to 125cc), if you have provisional + CBT you can do that training on an automatic bike and then go out and ride a geared bike for as long as you renew the CBT. Personally, I think it's a silly restriction. I learned gears on my own, if you know how to ride a bike it's not complicated to pick up - even in the CBT training they expect learners to pick it up in a half hour or so.

peteretep 10y ago
Very much worth noting that the CBT is a UK-only thing, and meaningless outside the UK.
- akerro 10y ago
  Some EU countries don't require CBT-equivalent training to ride 125cc

barrkel 10y ago

In the UK at least, CBT is not geared vs automatic specific. If you do your basic training on a scooter, you can still ride a geared 125 unaccompanied on the road. The full test is specific though. The bigger issue with scooters vs geared bikes isn't the extra effort of using the gears, it's the much higher centre of gravity and (usually) wider turning circle of geared bikes that complicates manoeuvres. More forward planning is required to avoid tight turns that require high bank angle at low speed, turns that are easy on a scooter. The higher centre of gravity means it's trivial to drop the bike if braking while turning at slow speed. It's easy to hold up a scooter in the same situation.

akerro 10y ago
>In the UK at least, CBT is not geared vs automatic specific Of course it is, I was actually talking about UK. Bottom of CBT cert has a line "Moped / Motorcycle", if you have "Moped" ticked and want to ride a gear bike, you have to re-do the CBT on a gear bike.
- barrkel 10y ago
  This is not correct. There was a review done of the training scheme and a recommendation was made to change this. But without legislation, the most the DVSA can do is "recommend that riders take further training if they want to ride a geared motorcycle". See item 6 in the table on page 8 of https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/442790/modernising_CBT_courses.pdf https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachm... FWIW, I think a staged CBT is a fine concept, especially in London, but there's a risk that an automatic-only CBT would make things worse because of the incentive structure. In a busy urban environment, focusing on the hazards on the road should be a much higher priority than mastering machine control. Spending time on a scooter is a fine way to adjust to this. Moving on to a geared bike is less problematic as the amount of new input and reactions that need to be dealt with at once is reduced. But a split between auto-only and geared CBTs would probably push more riders to go geared sooner rather than later (to avoid prematurely limiting their options), and increase overall risk on the road. I think this is part of the reason for the prevalence of geared cars on the roads in the UK. On the other side, if you learn to ride out in the countryside, there's no guarantee you'll be any good at handling the hazards of rush-hour metro traffic.

iamatworknow 10y ago

This is pretty interesting to hear as an American. The only restriction on motorcycle licenses in New York is whether or not your do your road test with two wheels or three (so if you take your test on something like a CanAm Spyder you'll have a 3 wheeler only restriction). You can pass your road test on a 125cc automatic scooter then turn right around and buy a Hayabusa or fully loaded GoldWing and ride it legally.

badthingfactory 10y ago

I don't agree with this. Driving a scooter/motorcycle is certainly different from driving an auto/manual car. Your comparison is closer to CDL/non-CDL. I've never heard of a situation where a person harmed themselves or others because they tried driving a manual transmission without knowing how to do so. People who don't know how to drive them simply don't drive them for one of two reasons: 1) they are too scared to try 2) they can't make it more than 2 feet without stalling. My sister and I both acquired licenses with automatic transmissions and eventually owned manuals. Being required to take a new test to acquire a new license to manually control the transmission would have been impractical and annoying.