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For me this is an emotional topic. I want everybody else to use it, but I myself do not want an electric car, an automatic car or a general speed limit. Arguing

For me this is an emotional topic. I want everybody else to use it, but I myself do not want an electric car, an automatic car or a general speed limit. Arguing about stuff like this with (some) Germans is like arguing about guns with (some) Americans. Sure, there is a reasonable position, which is better for society. I don't care, don't take away my [insert toy here]!

manmal 10y ago
How would it be better for society if everybody had automatic transmission?
- gambiting 10y ago
  I would call myself a "car enthusiast" and I drive an automatic - I feel like even in dangerous situations, I have full control of the car. Whether it's sudden need to stop or accelerate, I have full control. In a manual car I've had a few near-accidents where the car just stalled because I was so concentrated on braking and avoiding the obstacle - Which was great, except that I found myself in a middle of a dual carriageway, sideways, with my engine off, stressed to hell, so actually moving out of the way was a huge effort. I had a similar situation in an automatic and there's no such problem - you need to brake, you brake. You need to accelerate - you accelerate. I just think that an automatic transmission allows you to concentrate much more on what's going on around you, without having to worry about being in correct gear and using the clutch.
  - exclusiv 10y ago
    Never experienced that but you have way more control in a manual excluding powerful electric cars. You need to stop fast, well you have gears to utilize quickly in a manual. Need a pop to get out of a sticky situation? Drop the gear to get in the power band and pull away. I don't understand your argument other than manuals being more error prone. Certainly you could stall it in an intersection if you aren't experienced as an example. I haven't seen a report on this but I'd wager manuals were safer in practice before the smartphone and became even safer after. You can't be messing around with distractions nearly as much in a manual.
    - gambiting 10y ago
      Sure, but in a manual some percentage of my brain is always dedicated to thinking about which gear I'm in. In an automatic I have 100% attention on the road. And when I said "stop quickly" I meant "a person steps out on the road in front of you". Gears won't help you here, because I don't believe anyone can downshift in the 2 seconds left to impact - the best you can do is press the brake as hard as you can. The difference is that in a manual every time I had to do that I was left with a stalled car because I didn't press the clutch in time, while with an automatic I could move out of the way very quickly. I don't know man, I've been driving manuals for the past 7 years, and I bought an AMG car this year - which only comes with a 7-speed DCT transmission. I would never ever go back to a manual, unless it was like a Miata, or GT86 - those cars I want to drive with a manual, because they are super fun on a back road with a manual. But daily drive + almost 400 bhp? Only an automatic. Edit: also, you are saying that in a sticky situation you can just drop a gear to get in the power band, like you can't do it in an automatic - in an automatic, you just press the throttle down and it drops as many gears as needed. Want full maximum acceleration that the car can technically offer at the moment? Press it fully. Want to accelerate quickly but without dropping 3 gears down? Press it half way. I feel like that's tons more control than in a manual.
      - allendoerfer 10y ago
        When you have to stop to not hit a child, a running engine is not your biggest concern. In other situations (still rolling), you can downshift afterwards. You are used to use both feet together anyway, so the reflex would be to kick both pedals into the ground.
        mnw21cam 10y ago
        Indeed. Part of the driving test in the UK (which the instructor may or may not choose to ask you to do) is to behave as if a little child just ran out into the road in front of you. You just mash the brake and clutch at the same time and sort it out afterwards. It's quite a natural action.
      - exclusiv 10y ago
- lqdc13 10y ago
  I don't think the parent has the same idea, but from my personal experience, it is almost impossible to not break speed limits in a stick shift car. Same is not true in my case for automatic. Better have other drivers be safe and eco conscious.
  - micaksica 10y ago
    What? How? That's like saying because the car has a V8 instead of a four-cylinder it breaks speed limits. What are you doing with a stick shift that requires you to speed?
    - lqdc13 10y ago
      It is way more fun to drive, weave through traffic and to take turns at higher speed because of heel-toe downshifting than driving the same car with automatic. You feel like you are one with the car sometimes. You feel like you are in control. You hear the engine obey your every command. In an automatic car (only extensive experience with Subaru and Hondas) you feel like you are in a bus. It feels completely irresponsible to break rules. And the best part is that it doesn't have to be a fast car. My favorite was a Honda. I got too many speeding tickets in a manual so had to switch to automatic. But every time I go to Europe, where the rental cars are manual and roads are curvy, staying reasonable and safe requires too much self control. Regarding V8 vs 4-cyl, I think controlling myself in a 4-cyl is much harder than in the 8-cyls I've driven. The reason is that 4-cyls (obviously not true for all of them and one can tune the power band to be of any shape on any car) require you to raise the RPM since they don't have that much torque down low. That engine noise gives you that initial boost of adrenaline that starts the whole thing. This may not be true for all cars though since I've only driven Ford Mustang and Lexus V8s and mostly Hondas and Subarus 4-cyl.
      - seszett 10y ago
        > staying reasonable and safe requires too much self control. I wouldn't say manual transmission is the main problem here. I'm able to not break law when driving, and apparently most people in Europe are, even though we are mostly driving manual. I really hated driving automatics though, especially since my only experience with them was in the mountains of Taiwan and Japan. You just have so little control, and you feel the car struggle when you know it should just shift gears already, or shouldn't shift at all because you're going to slow down in 5 seconds.

manmal 10y ago

How would it be better for society if everybody had automatic transmission?

gambiting 10y ago
I would call myself a "car enthusiast" and I drive an automatic - I feel like even in dangerous situations, I have full control of the car. Whether it's sudden need to stop or accelerate, I have full control. In a manual car I've had a few near-accidents where the car just stalled because I was so concentrated on braking and avoiding the obstacle - Which was great, except that I found myself in a middle of a dual carriageway, sideways, with my engine off, stressed to hell, so actually moving out of the way was a huge effort. I had a similar situation in an automatic and there's no such problem - you need to brake, you brake. You need to accelerate - you accelerate. I just think that an automatic transmission allows you to concentrate much more on what's going on around you, without having to worry about being in correct gear and using the clutch.
- exclusiv 10y ago
  Never experienced that but you have way more control in a manual excluding powerful electric cars. You need to stop fast, well you have gears to utilize quickly in a manual. Need a pop to get out of a sticky situation? Drop the gear to get in the power band and pull away. I don't understand your argument other than manuals being more error prone. Certainly you could stall it in an intersection if you aren't experienced as an example. I haven't seen a report on this but I'd wager manuals were safer in practice before the smartphone and became even safer after. You can't be messing around with distractions nearly as much in a manual.
  - gambiting 10y ago
    Sure, but in a manual some percentage of my brain is always dedicated to thinking about which gear I'm in. In an automatic I have 100% attention on the road. And when I said "stop quickly" I meant "a person steps out on the road in front of you". Gears won't help you here, because I don't believe anyone can downshift in the 2 seconds left to impact - the best you can do is press the brake as hard as you can. The difference is that in a manual every time I had to do that I was left with a stalled car because I didn't press the clutch in time, while with an automatic I could move out of the way very quickly. I don't know man, I've been driving manuals for the past 7 years, and I bought an AMG car this year - which only comes with a 7-speed DCT transmission. I would never ever go back to a manual, unless it was like a Miata, or GT86 - those cars I want to drive with a manual, because they are super fun on a back road with a manual. But daily drive + almost 400 bhp? Only an automatic. Edit: also, you are saying that in a sticky situation you can just drop a gear to get in the power band, like you can't do it in an automatic - in an automatic, you just press the throttle down and it drops as many gears as needed. Want full maximum acceleration that the car can technically offer at the moment? Press it fully. Want to accelerate quickly but without dropping 3 gears down? Press it half way. I feel like that's tons more control than in a manual.
    - allendoerfer 10y ago
      When you have to stop to not hit a child, a running engine is not your biggest concern. In other situations (still rolling), you can downshift afterwards. You are used to use both feet together anyway, so the reflex would be to kick both pedals into the ground.
      - mnw21cam 10y ago
        Indeed. Part of the driving test in the UK (which the instructor may or may not choose to ask you to do) is to behave as if a little child just ran out into the road in front of you. You just mash the brake and clutch at the same time and sort it out afterwards. It's quite a natural action.
    - exclusiv 10y ago
lqdc13 10y ago
I don't think the parent has the same idea, but from my personal experience, it is almost impossible to not break speed limits in a stick shift car. Same is not true in my case for automatic. Better have other drivers be safe and eco conscious.
- micaksica 10y ago
  What? How? That's like saying because the car has a V8 instead of a four-cylinder it breaks speed limits. What are you doing with a stick shift that requires you to speed?
  - lqdc13 10y ago
    It is way more fun to drive, weave through traffic and to take turns at higher speed because of heel-toe downshifting than driving the same car with automatic. You feel like you are one with the car sometimes. You feel like you are in control. You hear the engine obey your every command. In an automatic car (only extensive experience with Subaru and Hondas) you feel like you are in a bus. It feels completely irresponsible to break rules. And the best part is that it doesn't have to be a fast car. My favorite was a Honda. I got too many speeding tickets in a manual so had to switch to automatic. But every time I go to Europe, where the rental cars are manual and roads are curvy, staying reasonable and safe requires too much self control. Regarding V8 vs 4-cyl, I think controlling myself in a 4-cyl is much harder than in the 8-cyls I've driven. The reason is that 4-cyls (obviously not true for all of them and one can tune the power band to be of any shape on any car) require you to raise the RPM since they don't have that much torque down low. That engine noise gives you that initial boost of adrenaline that starts the whole thing. This may not be true for all cars though since I've only driven Ford Mustang and Lexus V8s and mostly Hondas and Subarus 4-cyl.
    - seszett 10y ago
      > staying reasonable and safe requires too much self control. I wouldn't say manual transmission is the main problem here. I'm able to not break law when driving, and apparently most people in Europe are, even though we are mostly driving manual. I really hated driving automatics though, especially since my only experience with them was in the mountains of Taiwan and Japan. You just have so little control, and you feel the car struggle when you know it should just shift gears already, or shouldn't shift at all because you're going to slow down in 5 seconds.