6 ms·

I think, in a way, the media is kind of empowering the "alt-right" by constantly referring to them as the "alt-right". It presents it as the little guy vs The M

by fiblye 10y ago

I think, in a way, the media is kind of empowering the "alt-right" by constantly referring to them as the "alt-right". It presents it as the little guy vs The Man, and I think that makes it much more palatable than "far right." Influential people who think the government is intentionally making gay frogs, that media needs to be under strict control, that climate change is a Chinese hoax, and that everything is us vs (((Them))) just got a candidate that represents their views into the White House. There's nothing alt about it. It's just straight up mainstream now. Referring to it as such takes away from the rebel factor and reveals that this is, in fact, just the new system, as bad as the old one.

TillE 10y ago
It's a little odd, since 99% of the time it's really just a euphemism for a particular kind of neo-nazi.
- dpc59 10y ago
  alternative is pretty much a synonym of neo
  - jgrowl 10y ago
    I was thinking about this earlier. It's so silly. Neo Conservative was already taken so lets make up a new term to label people with. "I know, how about alt-right..."
    - waterphone 10y ago
      Alt-right people came up with the name for themselves, it wasn't a term others created to label them.
      - htns 10y ago
        Either way it's a navel-gazing orwellism.
    - paulddraper 10y ago
      The alternative is neo-neoconservative, like post-postmodernism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism) You're a programmer, right? NewNewClass ...
- betenoire 10y ago
  the politically correct term for a racist
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    A white racist. The Black Panthers are also racist, but I would not call them alt-right or neo-nazis.
- nailer 10y ago
  Really? The alt-right side don't support immigration and like their own culture - which is a very common thing across the world, particularly amongst the working class. neo nazis specifically advocate violence. I generally vote for the Labour party, but that doesn't mean I and my fellow Labour voters (Corbyn aside) support Mao/Chavez/PolPot-style murdering of our enemies.
  - rtpg 10y ago
    this is how the Alt-Right frames itself, and it's pretty ingenious. People discuss protection of culture, and completely step over the part about "their own culture". The Alt Right ideology relies on the principle that White culture is the "true" culture of the nation, and that other contributions simply do not count. They cast an illegitimacy to the history of minorities in the US. The debate about protecting the culture is irrelevant because they do not want to protect the nation's culture. They want to protect White culture.
    - nailer 10y ago
      It's the same as the (generally left) folk feel fine about when preserving areas from other cultures. Want to preserve Oakland or the Mission as is? That's fine. Don't like seeing women forced to walk around in burkas and girls having their genitals cut (I live in London where these re both issues)? That's racist. Obviously Islam isn't a race, and this makes no sense, but it's something people still claim. Either preserving existing cultures is OK or it isn't.
      - quonn 10y ago
        I'm sure genital mutilation is already prohibited under British law. The problem with the burkas is that is it of course difficult to determine or prove that they are not worn voluntarily. I know some girls from liberal (Christian/Atheist) families who converted to Islam who wear a Niqab. I can guarantee you that they are not "forced" to do this.
        nailer 10y ago
icanhackit 10y ago
the media is kind of empowering the "alt-right" by constantly referring to them as the "alt-right". It presents it as the little guy vs The Man, and I think that makes it much more palatable than "far right." Great observation and you hint at a simple solution - call them by their conventional moniker: the far-right. There's nothing new about their ideologies and "the far-right" elicit a different response from people than the newer and unfamiliar "alt-right".
- grzm 10y ago
  Maybe, and in some cases you're likely right. In others, might it not be people who consider themselves right (and not extreme) but no longer feel the Republicans (the traditional right) truly represent them? As an aside, there are likely plenty of people on the left that feel similarly.
  - icanhackit 10y ago
    might it not be people who consider themselves right (and not extreme) but no longer feel the Republicans (the traditional right) truly represent them? The far-left/left/center-left etc and right side counterparts are defined by policy and ideology, so whether they feel the GOP was in touch doesn't really make a difference. You wouldn't call the Republicans "right" if they started handing out generous welfare packages to the masses.
    - woodman 10y ago
      > You wouldn't call the Republicans "right" if they started handing out generous welfare packages to the masses. Like their pre-Obama universal healthcare proposals? The one dimensional political spectrum, with n-right vs n-left, doesn't work at all.
      - icanhackit 10y ago
        > The one dimensional political spectrum, with n-right vs n-left, doesn't work at all. It's not a good way of accurately gauging the political spectrum but I'm not sure I'd say it doesn't work at all. A better method would be to add two more axes so you have x, y and z which would allow you to measure social policy (services, infrastructure), fiscal policy (an increase or decrease in state assets, taxation) and international relations (trade, alliances). The end result would be a kind of tetrahedron that represents the shape of a party's policy (that's not the point of it - it's just an interesting feature of having a three dimensional gauge).
woodman 10y ago
> ... that media needs to be under strict control ... Is that really an alt-right position? I lost interest in politics a long time ago, but the last time I heard that sentiment was from the left - calling for the Fairness Doctrine to be brought back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine
- tenpies 10y ago
  I don't think so. If anything the alt-right probably believes that the media is already under extremely strict control by the left. The elections made it very clear that the majority of the main stream media is in line with Hillary/the Liberals/the regressive Left. Almost every media technology company is also perceived to be in line with that pro-liberal media bloc (See: Twitter's almost exclusive banning of right-wing rule-breakers, Facebook's pro-Liberal news curation, Google's perceived tailouring of Hillary search results). The alt-right probably wants free speech above all, to the point where hate speech is permitted in much the same way that safe spaces are today.
domfletcher 10y ago
I absolutely hate it as a term. It's an exercise in rebranding of an ideology and it's a pretty clever one as well. Alternative (alt) implies that they're somehow ideologically different from the rest of the "right". They aren't, they're as you say just further right. Also alt with the lower case a carries with it some techy payload as well which together with people like Thiel makes it look like its some expression of ideas about the future when it's mostly about nostalgia for the past. I can't believe how easily this has been swallowed by everyone particularly the media.

by fiblye 10y ago

TillE 10y ago

It's a little odd, since 99% of the time it's really just a euphemism for a particular kind of neo-nazi.

dpc59 10y ago
alternative is pretty much a synonym of neo
- jgrowl 10y ago
  I was thinking about this earlier. It's so silly. Neo Conservative was already taken so lets make up a new term to label people with. "I know, how about alt-right..."
  - waterphone 10y ago
    Alt-right people came up with the name for themselves, it wasn't a term others created to label them.
    - htns 10y ago
      Either way it's a navel-gazing orwellism.
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    The alternative is neo-neoconservative, like post-postmodernism (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-postmodernism) You're a programmer, right? NewNewClass ...
betenoire 10y ago
the politically correct term for a racist
- paulddraper 10y ago
  A white racist. The Black Panthers are also racist, but I would not call them alt-right or neo-nazis.
nailer 10y ago
Really? The alt-right side don't support immigration and like their own culture - which is a very common thing across the world, particularly amongst the working class. neo nazis specifically advocate violence. I generally vote for the Labour party, but that doesn't mean I and my fellow Labour voters (Corbyn aside) support Mao/Chavez/PolPot-style murdering of our enemies.
- rtpg 10y ago
  this is how the Alt-Right frames itself, and it's pretty ingenious. People discuss protection of culture, and completely step over the part about "their own culture". The Alt Right ideology relies on the principle that White culture is the "true" culture of the nation, and that other contributions simply do not count. They cast an illegitimacy to the history of minorities in the US. The debate about protecting the culture is irrelevant because they do not want to protect the nation's culture. They want to protect White culture.
  - nailer 10y ago
    It's the same as the (generally left) folk feel fine about when preserving areas from other cultures. Want to preserve Oakland or the Mission as is? That's fine. Don't like seeing women forced to walk around in burkas and girls having their genitals cut (I live in London where these re both issues)? That's racist. Obviously Islam isn't a race, and this makes no sense, but it's something people still claim. Either preserving existing cultures is OK or it isn't.
    - quonn 10y ago
      I'm sure genital mutilation is already prohibited under British law. The problem with the burkas is that is it of course difficult to determine or prove that they are not worn voluntarily. I know some girls from liberal (Christian/Atheist) families who converted to Islam who wear a Niqab. I can guarantee you that they are not "forced" to do this.
      - nailer 10y ago

icanhackit 10y ago

the media is kind of empowering the "alt-right" by constantly referring to them as the "alt-right". It presents it as the little guy vs The Man, and I think that makes it much more palatable than "far right." Great observation and you hint at a simple solution - call them by their conventional moniker: the far-right. There's nothing new about their ideologies and "the far-right" elicit a different response from people than the newer and unfamiliar "alt-right".

grzm 10y ago
Maybe, and in some cases you're likely right. In others, might it not be people who consider themselves right (and not extreme) but no longer feel the Republicans (the traditional right) truly represent them? As an aside, there are likely plenty of people on the left that feel similarly.
- icanhackit 10y ago
  might it not be people who consider themselves right (and not extreme) but no longer feel the Republicans (the traditional right) truly represent them? The far-left/left/center-left etc and right side counterparts are defined by policy and ideology, so whether they feel the GOP was in touch doesn't really make a difference. You wouldn't call the Republicans "right" if they started handing out generous welfare packages to the masses.
  - woodman 10y ago
    > You wouldn't call the Republicans "right" if they started handing out generous welfare packages to the masses. Like their pre-Obama universal healthcare proposals? The one dimensional political spectrum, with n-right vs n-left, doesn't work at all.
    - icanhackit 10y ago
      > The one dimensional political spectrum, with n-right vs n-left, doesn't work at all. It's not a good way of accurately gauging the political spectrum but I'm not sure I'd say it doesn't work at all. A better method would be to add two more axes so you have x, y and z which would allow you to measure social policy (services, infrastructure), fiscal policy (an increase or decrease in state assets, taxation) and international relations (trade, alliances). The end result would be a kind of tetrahedron that represents the shape of a party's policy (that's not the point of it - it's just an interesting feature of having a three dimensional gauge).

woodman 10y ago

> ... that media needs to be under strict control ... Is that really an alt-right position? I lost interest in politics a long time ago, but the last time I heard that sentiment was from the left - calling for the Fairness Doctrine to be brought back. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairness_Doctrine

tenpies 10y ago
I don't think so. If anything the alt-right probably believes that the media is already under extremely strict control by the left. The elections made it very clear that the majority of the main stream media is in line with Hillary/the Liberals/the regressive Left. Almost every media technology company is also perceived to be in line with that pro-liberal media bloc (See: Twitter's almost exclusive banning of right-wing rule-breakers, Facebook's pro-Liberal news curation, Google's perceived tailouring of Hillary search results). The alt-right probably wants free speech above all, to the point where hate speech is permitted in much the same way that safe spaces are today.

domfletcher 10y ago

I absolutely hate it as a term. It's an exercise in rebranding of an ideology and it's a pretty clever one as well. Alternative (alt) implies that they're somehow ideologically different from the rest of the "right". They aren't, they're as you say just further right. Also alt with the lower case a carries with it some techy payload as well which together with people like Thiel makes it look like its some expression of ideas about the future when it's mostly about nostalgia for the past. I can't believe how easily this has been swallowed by everyone particularly the media.