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This reminds me of Java applications that you can immediately tell are Java because of the weird font. I don't see an advantage over using native system fonts.

This reminds me of Java applications that you can immediately tell are Java because of the weird font. I don't see an advantage over using native system fonts. As far as I know you don't need a license to use fonts installed on the system running the application. Why does the font need to be bundled? The wide spread adoption of this is going to make go programs stick out like a sore thumb.

bhrgunatha 10y ago
Jetbrains are the only example I've come across that provide an option for native UI elements in Java apps. To expand on your point. What about the combination of fonts and UI elements I've chosen for my desktop environment. Will this new UI toolkit ignore those choices I've made and stick to using their own font? It's bad enough already, for example on linux, where there are already two incompatible UI toolkits being used for the majority of applications, GTK and Qt. It's already difficult enough getting a consistent UI for applications that use both.
- lobster_johnson 10y ago
  Eclipse is — or was, I haven't used it since 2006 — also great. Instead of using the horribleness that is Swing, they wrote their own toolkit, SWT, which uses native UI controls, and it's the only Java app I've ever used that had a native look and feel. (They did a lot of custom rendering, of course, but it was still able to feel native.)
- pvg 10y ago
  What options for native UI does IDEA provide? It's mostly a Swing app.
creshal 10y ago
> I don't see an advantage over using native system fonts As touched on in the article, you need a standardized font you have control over for automated testing, to make sure you're getting reproducible results. OS fonts are too inconsistent for that. Now, why they couldn't use any of the literally hundreds of other open-source fonts instead that Google made…
- vanderZwan 10y ago
  I suspect partially to avoid the Google branding (which seems like a good reason), and partially because of Rob Pike's Bell Labs and Plan 9 history (which would be more nostalgia than anything else, but not necessarily a bad reason).
- tracker1 10y ago
  That was one of my first thoughts.... imho Noto looks better, and the monospace font is pretty hideous imho. I like Inconsolata/Consolas, but there are many other options that are libre licensed and better looking imho. As to other comments, mostly agreed on using system fonts.
- tokenizerrr 10y ago
  > As touched on in the article, you need a standardized font you have control over for automated testing Why? Just standardize the font when running in test mode. I expect system applications to use my system fonts.
  - creshal 10y ago
    Yeah, that's the part where it stops making sense. System fonts are good enough for human consumption.
- vvanders 10y ago
  I hope they aren't planning on going down the path of golden-image testing, if so they're in for a world of pain.
nurettin 10y ago
I don't respect the self-imposed "x-platform native UI experience" constraint anymore. Even windows slowly rebuilt its user interface and experience over the years. It isn't a user demand, it doesn't put any pressure on support, frankly I have no idea what these people who spread all this custom drawn vs native control polemic were thinking. Also, if you are making money, who cares if you drew some of your controls on a canvas instead of trying to goad some restricted native elements into acting and drawing like you want them to?
- kalleboo 10y ago
  > who cares if you drew some of your controls on a canvas instead of trying to goad some restricted native elements into acting and drawing like you want them to Because now your app will break in HiDPI, for screen readers, automation tools, the next version of Unicode. Expected behavior like tabbing, keyboard shortcuts, system spell-checking breaks.
  - nurettin 10y ago
    Why, then, doesn't firemonkey have any scaling or layout problems? Not all applications need any of the system level services that are coupled tightly with the system widgets.
    - chimeracoder 10y ago
      > Why, then, doesn't firemonkey have any scaling or layout problems? Not all applications need any of the system level services that are coupled tightly with the system widgets. I can't speak for Firemonkey specifically, but a lot of cross-platform toolkits of its ilk have horrible problems when rendered on 4K displays.
- adrianN 10y ago
  Were you ever forced to use something like SAP? The UI gives its users cancer because "for historic reasons" they do everything themselves instead of using normal widgets and shortcuts.
chj 10y ago
You must notice they are building a new UI toolkit with opengl es backend. They apparently don't care about native system.

bhrgunatha 10y ago

Jetbrains are the only example I've come across that provide an option for native UI elements in Java apps. To expand on your point. What about the combination of fonts and UI elements I've chosen for my desktop environment. Will this new UI toolkit ignore those choices I've made and stick to using their own font? It's bad enough already, for example on linux, where there are already two incompatible UI toolkits being used for the majority of applications, GTK and Qt. It's already difficult enough getting a consistent UI for applications that use both.

lobster_johnson 10y ago
Eclipse is — or was, I haven't used it since 2006 — also great. Instead of using the horribleness that is Swing, they wrote their own toolkit, SWT, which uses native UI controls, and it's the only Java app I've ever used that had a native look and feel. (They did a lot of custom rendering, of course, but it was still able to feel native.)
pvg 10y ago
What options for native UI does IDEA provide? It's mostly a Swing app.

creshal 10y ago

> I don't see an advantage over using native system fonts As touched on in the article, you need a standardized font you have control over for automated testing, to make sure you're getting reproducible results. OS fonts are too inconsistent for that. Now, why they couldn't use any of the literally hundreds of other open-source fonts instead that Google made…

vanderZwan 10y ago
I suspect partially to avoid the Google branding (which seems like a good reason), and partially because of Rob Pike's Bell Labs and Plan 9 history (which would be more nostalgia than anything else, but not necessarily a bad reason).
tracker1 10y ago
That was one of my first thoughts.... imho Noto looks better, and the monospace font is pretty hideous imho. I like Inconsolata/Consolas, but there are many other options that are libre licensed and better looking imho. As to other comments, mostly agreed on using system fonts.
tokenizerrr 10y ago
> As touched on in the article, you need a standardized font you have control over for automated testing Why? Just standardize the font when running in test mode. I expect system applications to use my system fonts.
- creshal 10y ago
  Yeah, that's the part where it stops making sense. System fonts are good enough for human consumption.
vvanders 10y ago
I hope they aren't planning on going down the path of golden-image testing, if so they're in for a world of pain.

nurettin 10y ago

I don't respect the self-imposed "x-platform native UI experience" constraint anymore. Even windows slowly rebuilt its user interface and experience over the years. It isn't a user demand, it doesn't put any pressure on support, frankly I have no idea what these people who spread all this custom drawn vs native control polemic were thinking. Also, if you are making money, who cares if you drew some of your controls on a canvas instead of trying to goad some restricted native elements into acting and drawing like you want them to?

kalleboo 10y ago
> who cares if you drew some of your controls on a canvas instead of trying to goad some restricted native elements into acting and drawing like you want them to Because now your app will break in HiDPI, for screen readers, automation tools, the next version of Unicode. Expected behavior like tabbing, keyboard shortcuts, system spell-checking breaks.
- nurettin 10y ago
  Why, then, doesn't firemonkey have any scaling or layout problems? Not all applications need any of the system level services that are coupled tightly with the system widgets.
  - chimeracoder 10y ago
    > Why, then, doesn't firemonkey have any scaling or layout problems? Not all applications need any of the system level services that are coupled tightly with the system widgets. I can't speak for Firemonkey specifically, but a lot of cross-platform toolkits of its ilk have horrible problems when rendered on 4K displays.
adrianN 10y ago
Were you ever forced to use something like SAP? The UI gives its users cancer because "for historic reasons" they do everything themselves instead of using normal widgets and shortcuts.

chj 10y ago

You must notice they are building a new UI toolkit with opengl es backend. They apparently don't care about native system.