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Apple's plan for the future does not include Mac or MacOS. They've been treating macOS as a second-tier OS for years and have been barely updating it. And when

by Jerry2 10y ago

Apple's plan for the future does not include Mac or MacOS. They've been treating macOS as a second-tier OS for years and have been barely updating it. And when they do update it, they just backport some iOS features to it. You can also tell that macOS is not a priority because security updates for same kernel issues always come weeks after they've been fixed on iOS. And let's not even get into Mac hardware and how there's no more true Pro options and how rarely they even update them. Cook's infamous quote says it all about the future of Mac: >“I think if you’re looking at a PC, why would you buy a PC anymore? No really, why would you buy one?” – Tim Cook, talking about the iPad Pro Requiem for the Mac is in order.

mikek 10y ago
"PC" in Apple lingo refers to Windows machines. http://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/10/31/cook-why-would-you-buy-a-pc-anymore http://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/10/31/cook-why-would-y...
- 0xcde4c3db 10y ago
  You're not wrong about "PC", but Cook was pretty clearly talking about a larger market shift away from laptops and desktops: > Yes, the iPad Pro is a replacement for a notebook or a desktop for many, many people. They will start using it and conclude they no longer need to use anything else, other than their phones. I don't really buy the downplaying of the "many, many people" wording in the linked blog post. I think the fact that Cook was silent about Mac while still bothering to mention "other than their phones" is a kind of statement in itself.
- blinkingled 10y ago
  But does that make any sense? Why would people not need PCs but need Macs?
  - r00fus 10y ago
    To sync/backup and write code for their iOS devices? Actually the real answer is to avoid Microsoft. Microsoft - remove telemetry and you'll have me back.
    - blinkingled 10y ago
      That's not a big enough market worth addressing though - Most people of course don't mind Microsoft at all. And given just how sweet they're making Windows for developers I suspect less and less people will mind them.
mtw 10y ago
Well perhaps they can get Xcode on iPad Pro!
ThomPete 10y ago
Well what machines are they going to be making all the apps on then? You really think iOS will overtake?
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  They are far, far away from iOS being a dev platform.
  - ThomPete 10y ago
    I agree. I was just wondering if OP knew something I didn't
- Jerry2 10y ago
  I expect Xcode for iOS (or whatever they call it) to make its debut next year. It might come as a "lite" version or something like that but an app that allows you to make iOS app with iOS is something I'd bet a lot of money on. Apple's 'Swift Playgrounds' for iOS was their first step towards turning iOS into a dev platform.
  - eridius 10y ago
    Swift Playgrounds isn't a development environment, it's a teaching environment.
    - Jerry2 10y ago
      Yes, and? It still compiles Swift code. Expect Xcode for iOS at WWDC2017.
      - eridius 10y ago
        And, the existence of a teaching environment in no way indicates that Xcode is being ported to iOS. Do not expect Xcode for iOS at WWDC2017.
rimantas 10y ago
Or they have been treating macOS as a mature OS where there is little space for the revolution. Except that part of "barely touching" is not really true. > You can also tell that macOS is not a priority because > security updates for same kernel issues always come weeks > after they've been fixed on iOS. Or you can tell that iOS has much larger user base and hence the priority for security fixes.
- binaryapparatus 10y ago
  > Or you can tell that iOS has much larger user base and hence the priority for security fixes. Yeah because that single guy that needs to code all security patches has to finish iOS first before he goes to another building to work on macOS? We are often discussing (me included) Apple moves like they have very little resources to do anything. Then I think again and d'oh.
  - gumby 10y ago
    AKAIK Apple no longer has a separate MacOS group. You could interpret this as a good or bad sign -- I interpret it positively. The Mac folks can develop drivers or whatever they need but core tech (e.g. GCD) need no longer start on one platform.
    - microtherion 10y ago
      Ultimately, all the various *OS functions report to the same senior vice president. However, there still are teams that predominantly do macOS, iOS, etc, and there always have been engineers who worked on multiple platforms. Historically, the barriers have mostly been against porting iOS technology to macOS, but that hasn't been an issue in several years.
  - phaed 10y ago
    He might be married though.
- Jerry2 10y ago
  Are you telling me that the richest and most valuable company in the world can't coordinate security patches of two of its biggest OSes that share a lot of kernel code?
Kadin 10y ago
I am not entirely convinced that Apple has a coherent plan for the future, at least one that is stable and not shifting every few months. I mean, they clearly had some sort of iCar focus which they just shifted away from, which puts them back squarely on iOS devices. But smartphones aren't the growth market that they were a few years ago. Unless they can find some sort of new market to expand into, they're not going to be able to be the same sort of asymptotic-growth-fueled company they were since the iPod came out. Either they need another iPod / iPhone / iPad (and I'm not entirely sure that the iPad deserves to be there, next to the prior two, but it kept things going for a while), or they have to really retrench to be a stable-market company, serving the upgrade-every-few-years premium smartphone buyer.
- ethbro 10y ago
  If one believes that Apple has always been an integration leader rather than a technology leader, then the idea follows that there may exist points in time where the technological state-of-the-art and consumer desires simply have no overlap that allows for new products on the level of the iPod/iPhone/iPad. Apple apparently believed smartcars were there, but I'd guess their implementation of the technology wasn't hitting targets. It does still seems bizarre they aren't pushing VR/AR given their creative-professional heavy userbase.
gurkendoktor 10y ago
I often read that macOS is doomed because it is obviously understaffed and not aimed at pros anymore. Maybe. But I don't agree that the iPad is in better shape (as Tim Cook's comment might suggest). iOS 10 on iPad Pro has been just as buggy as macOS 10.12 on my Mac, but nobody even mentions iCloud failures anymore, or glitchy layouts after rotating the device (hello status bar??). iOS 10 also hasn't brought any new "pro-ness" to the iPad. Most updates have felt like "me-too" releases next to the iPhone (except for iOS 9 with split screen and Pencil support). Depending on which analytics site you ask, Apple has cut off ~35% of deployed iPads from updates this fall, which means that iPad app developers can't be smug about fragmentation anymore. It's also hard to look down on AppKit as the framework that hasn't aged well next to the complicated monster that UIKit has become (compared to iOS 5, sigh). Not to mention that tablet sales have slowed down, and both current iPad models (Pro 9.7" and 12.9") are too expensive to buy on a whim. If Apple has a plan for the future, then I don't see it on the horizon yet.

by Jerry2 10y ago

mikek 10y ago

"PC" in Apple lingo refers to Windows machines. http://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/10/31/cook-why-would-you-buy-a-pc-anymore http://daringfireball.net/linked/2016/10/31/cook-why-would-y...

0xcde4c3db 10y ago
You're not wrong about "PC", but Cook was pretty clearly talking about a larger market shift away from laptops and desktops: > Yes, the iPad Pro is a replacement for a notebook or a desktop for many, many people. They will start using it and conclude they no longer need to use anything else, other than their phones. I don't really buy the downplaying of the "many, many people" wording in the linked blog post. I think the fact that Cook was silent about Mac while still bothering to mention "other than their phones" is a kind of statement in itself.
blinkingled 10y ago
But does that make any sense? Why would people not need PCs but need Macs?
- r00fus 10y ago
  To sync/backup and write code for their iOS devices? Actually the real answer is to avoid Microsoft. Microsoft - remove telemetry and you'll have me back.
  - blinkingled 10y ago
    That's not a big enough market worth addressing though - Most people of course don't mind Microsoft at all. And given just how sweet they're making Windows for developers I suspect less and less people will mind them.

mtw 10y ago

Well perhaps they can get Xcode on iPad Pro!

ThomPete 10y ago

Well what machines are they going to be making all the apps on then? You really think iOS will overtake?

maxxxxx 10y ago
They are far, far away from iOS being a dev platform.
- ThomPete 10y ago
  I agree. I was just wondering if OP knew something I didn't
Jerry2 10y ago
I expect Xcode for iOS (or whatever they call it) to make its debut next year. It might come as a "lite" version or something like that but an app that allows you to make iOS app with iOS is something I'd bet a lot of money on. Apple's 'Swift Playgrounds' for iOS was their first step towards turning iOS into a dev platform.
- eridius 10y ago
  Swift Playgrounds isn't a development environment, it's a teaching environment.
  - Jerry2 10y ago
    Yes, and? It still compiles Swift code. Expect Xcode for iOS at WWDC2017.
    - eridius 10y ago
      And, the existence of a teaching environment in no way indicates that Xcode is being ported to iOS. Do not expect Xcode for iOS at WWDC2017.

rimantas 10y ago

Or they have been treating macOS as a mature OS where there is little space for the revolution. Except that part of "barely touching" is not really true. > You can also tell that macOS is not a priority because > security updates for same kernel issues always come weeks > after they've been fixed on iOS. Or you can tell that iOS has much larger user base and hence the priority for security fixes.

binaryapparatus 10y ago
> Or you can tell that iOS has much larger user base and hence the priority for security fixes. Yeah because that single guy that needs to code all security patches has to finish iOS first before he goes to another building to work on macOS? We are often discussing (me included) Apple moves like they have very little resources to do anything. Then I think again and d'oh.
- gumby 10y ago
  AKAIK Apple no longer has a separate MacOS group. You could interpret this as a good or bad sign -- I interpret it positively. The Mac folks can develop drivers or whatever they need but core tech (e.g. GCD) need no longer start on one platform.
  - microtherion 10y ago
    Ultimately, all the various *OS functions report to the same senior vice president. However, there still are teams that predominantly do macOS, iOS, etc, and there always have been engineers who worked on multiple platforms. Historically, the barriers have mostly been against porting iOS technology to macOS, but that hasn't been an issue in several years.
- phaed 10y ago
  He might be married though.
Jerry2 10y ago
Are you telling me that the richest and most valuable company in the world can't coordinate security patches of two of its biggest OSes that share a lot of kernel code?

Kadin 10y ago

I am not entirely convinced that Apple has a coherent plan for the future, at least one that is stable and not shifting every few months. I mean, they clearly had some sort of iCar focus which they just shifted away from, which puts them back squarely on iOS devices. But smartphones aren't the growth market that they were a few years ago. Unless they can find some sort of new market to expand into, they're not going to be able to be the same sort of asymptotic-growth-fueled company they were since the iPod came out. Either they need another iPod / iPhone / iPad (and I'm not entirely sure that the iPad deserves to be there, next to the prior two, but it kept things going for a while), or they have to really retrench to be a stable-market company, serving the upgrade-every-few-years premium smartphone buyer.

ethbro 10y ago
If one believes that Apple has always been an integration leader rather than a technology leader, then the idea follows that there may exist points in time where the technological state-of-the-art and consumer desires simply have no overlap that allows for new products on the level of the iPod/iPhone/iPad. Apple apparently believed smartcars were there, but I'd guess their implementation of the technology wasn't hitting targets. It does still seems bizarre they aren't pushing VR/AR given their creative-professional heavy userbase.

gurkendoktor 10y ago

I often read that macOS is doomed because it is obviously understaffed and not aimed at pros anymore. Maybe. But I don't agree that the iPad is in better shape (as Tim Cook's comment might suggest). iOS 10 on iPad Pro has been just as buggy as macOS 10.12 on my Mac, but nobody even mentions iCloud failures anymore, or glitchy layouts after rotating the device (hello status bar??). iOS 10 also hasn't brought any new "pro-ness" to the iPad. Most updates have felt like "me-too" releases next to the iPhone (except for iOS 9 with split screen and Pencil support). Depending on which analytics site you ask, Apple has cut off ~35% of deployed iPads from updates this fall, which means that iPad app developers can't be smug about fragmentation anymore. It's also hard to look down on AppKit as the framework that hasn't aged well next to the complicated monster that UIKit has become (compared to iOS 5, sigh). Not to mention that tablet sales have slowed down, and both current iPad models (Pro 9.7" and 12.9") are too expensive to buy on a whim. If Apple has a plan for the future, then I don't see it on the horizon yet.