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As an Alt Right Trump supporter, I can state without question that the worst thing about 2016 politics so far is that Alex Jones and his InfoWars no longer earn

by hga 10y ago

As an Alt Right Trump supporter, I can state without question that the worst thing about 2016 politics so far is that Alex Jones and his InfoWars no longer earns automatic dismissal, i.e. he's been publishing some good stuff, therefore people I follow have been linking more to him, etc. What that says is not specifically clear to me, but it's nothing good, unless he's become significantly more sane as of late.

cableshaft 10y ago
What makes someone Alt Right, if I might ask? I've only heard about it via Facebook and it's being painted as fringe extremist stuff there, but absolutely everyone is crazy on Facebook right now. I'd rather hear it from someone who considers themselves part of it.
- internaut 10y ago
  The alt right is the popular front of the NRX. Scott Alexander has a good overview here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-... This quote is priceless "The good Catholic in medieval Spain doesn’t feel repressed, even when the Inquisition drags away her neighbor. She feels like decent people have total freedom to worship whichever saint they want, total freedom to go to whatever cathedral they choose, total freedom to debate who the next bishop should be – oh, and thank goodness someone’s around to deal with those crazy people who are trying to damn the rest of us to Hell. We medieval Spaniards are way too smart to fall for the balance fallacy!" The tldr is that neoreactionaries believe that many beliefs about modern society are not just wrong, but not even wrong. The follow on header might be more relevant to this particular thread though: "Wait, You Mean The Invisible Multi-Tentacled Monster That Has Taken Over All Our Information Sources Might Be Trying To Mislead Us?"
  - hga 10y ago
    I don't think I can be a member of the NRx without a possessing a thousand times more patience than I have to slog through Moldbug's writings, but you make a great point in your tl;dr, "many beliefs about modern society are not just wrong, but not even wrong.", thanks for noticing that connection/formulation.
    - internaut 10y ago
      Listen, the important thing is that when Peter lit the Beacons of Gondor, the Men (+Elves/Dwarfs/Hobbits) of the West answered the call.
      - hga 10y ago
        But only if they managed to slog thought the books that far! As far as I know, one of the things Tolkien created was what I call the "long slog" genre of fantasy, which involves the hero(es) traveling great distances, often getting the story bogged down in their travels (yeah, I know it's been done before). I did manage to finish the trilogy, mostly because I had little better to read that I hadn't or wouldn't, back in those days in my small city prior to the Internet, but I see more than a little commonality between the two authors, except Tolkien had a lot more respect for his audience, i.e. was willing to take the extra effort to keep it focused and on track. (And compare to Robert Jordan, who just stopped the plot for long enough I gave up on the series, life's just too short for it. I also didn't pick up an early and important, extremely plot significant clue about the taint.)
        internaut 10y ago
        Gene Wolfe is better than Robert Jordan and could surpass Tolkien. He is a currently unrecognized Giant, on the level of our new Shakespeare. Literally every famous author you've heard of says it. Gene Wolfe is what the journeymen read to improve their craft but he is little known outside rarefied circles. I wrote a piece 10 days ago (so before the election) explaining why a reading of Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun explains Peter Thiel's motivations in backing Trump. He was following a thread nobody else saw. So many smart people, yes on the alt right also, are missing a much bigger picture. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12884413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12884413 It is not an exaggeration that this book changed my life. You don't have to be a neoreactionary to read it but reading it alongside Joeseph Tainter's Collapse of Complex Societies is a wonderful and enriching life experience that will definitely change how you view the world. In addition I strongly recommend you watch Peter Thiel's videos on Youtube such as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw-rxtwhzcY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw-rxtwhzcY Tainter, Thiel, Wolfe, Moldbug. If you wish to scry deeply into the world, that's how I'd start. Many people reading this will be liberals or progressives. To them I say, this is a rabbit hole nobody else is going to recommend, if you sincerely are interested in the order of the right's thought, here it is.
- hga 10y ago
  One way of viewing it is that it's akin to the original neo-conservatives, who were Communists who lost faith in it. If you remember William Kristol trying to be the anti-Trump leader, his father Irving was one of its founders (note that this is decades before "neo-con" got its current meaning). Lots of us are libertarians or conservatives who've lost faith in those, and are pursuing and defining a new Right that's by definition an alternative to the existing Right. Me, I was a paleoconservative. As far as a strict definition, the best I've seen so far is former libertarian Vox Day's initial attempt, 16 points which you can find at http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html Note that as a matter of taxonomy, he divides it into the Alt White, such as the Daily Stormer types and a group he can't belong to, and a much larger Alt West, I can dig that up for you if you want, but obviously the Alt West isn't obsessed with the Joooos, is therefore unabashedly Christian or at least believing, well, here's his 4th point: The Alt Right believes Western civilization is the pinnacle of human achievement and supports its three foundational pillars: Christianity, the European nations, and the Graeco-Roman legacy. The total antisemite types, I gather they don't much like Christianity because of its Jewish origins, from Jesus to the Old Testament, they're certainly fond of a lot of pagan icons. The combativeness of point 3 is a personal characteristic of his, but is pretty essential, and you can see how Trump is aligned with it (although, frankly, if implicitly telling the press to FU is what you need to enjoy a steak dinner with your family in peace...). Point 12 is particularly important: "The Alt Right doesn't care what you think of it.", or more simply put, "We Don't Care." Note Trump's war on Political Correctness, which alone won him more than a few votes, lots of people are utterly sick of it. Obviously many of the points will send anyone on the left screaming, and certainly there's no universal agreement on any of this---forget it being inchoate, humans being humans there never will be!---but you can take it as being at least somewhat representative of the Alt Right.
  - masondixon 10y ago
    Wow, as a Trump supporter, I find this really scary ("what the alt right is"). I honestly did not know this is what the Alt Right was purporting to be. But, this is not what Trump is about. Trump's policies do not reflect your manifesto here. If you visit The_Donald Reddit, this is what most young Trump supporters are. They are opposed to SJWs, BLM, and third-wave feminists, because they do not think that their actions are helping them achieve their goals, and others just want to make fun of this fact. The Alt Right certainly does lurk there, and I would say it is a good recruiting ground. If you click on the Discord button in the sidebar, you will find a default chat room for The_Donald crew where it says "no racist/Nazi shit", but then there are recommendations for places to go for "free-er speech". This makes me nauseas to think about. I get the feeling very dark places lie beyond here. Sure, on the other side of the spectrum is the The New Black Panthers, and Communists, but I do feel like the right has scarier extremities. If Bannon is for the Alt-Right as written in that article, then I am scared as fuck about him in the White House.
- 551199 10y ago
  There isn't really alt-right not at least in the sense its portrait. People who lean right and don't agree with old republican base seem to be portrait as such. It's just word thinking.

by hga 10y ago

cableshaft 10y ago

What makes someone Alt Right, if I might ask? I've only heard about it via Facebook and it's being painted as fringe extremist stuff there, but absolutely everyone is crazy on Facebook right now. I'd rather hear it from someone who considers themselves part of it.

internaut 10y ago
The alt right is the popular front of the NRX. Scott Alexander has a good overview here: http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-in-an-enormous-planet-sized-nutshell/ http://slatestarcodex.com/2013/03/03/reactionary-philosophy-... This quote is priceless "The good Catholic in medieval Spain doesn’t feel repressed, even when the Inquisition drags away her neighbor. She feels like decent people have total freedom to worship whichever saint they want, total freedom to go to whatever cathedral they choose, total freedom to debate who the next bishop should be – oh, and thank goodness someone’s around to deal with those crazy people who are trying to damn the rest of us to Hell. We medieval Spaniards are way too smart to fall for the balance fallacy!" The tldr is that neoreactionaries believe that many beliefs about modern society are not just wrong, but not even wrong. The follow on header might be more relevant to this particular thread though: "Wait, You Mean The Invisible Multi-Tentacled Monster That Has Taken Over All Our Information Sources Might Be Trying To Mislead Us?"
- hga 10y ago
  I don't think I can be a member of the NRx without a possessing a thousand times more patience than I have to slog through Moldbug's writings, but you make a great point in your tl;dr, "many beliefs about modern society are not just wrong, but not even wrong.", thanks for noticing that connection/formulation.
  - internaut 10y ago
    Listen, the important thing is that when Peter lit the Beacons of Gondor, the Men (+Elves/Dwarfs/Hobbits) of the West answered the call.
    - hga 10y ago
      But only if they managed to slog thought the books that far! As far as I know, one of the things Tolkien created was what I call the "long slog" genre of fantasy, which involves the hero(es) traveling great distances, often getting the story bogged down in their travels (yeah, I know it's been done before). I did manage to finish the trilogy, mostly because I had little better to read that I hadn't or wouldn't, back in those days in my small city prior to the Internet, but I see more than a little commonality between the two authors, except Tolkien had a lot more respect for his audience, i.e. was willing to take the extra effort to keep it focused and on track. (And compare to Robert Jordan, who just stopped the plot for long enough I gave up on the series, life's just too short for it. I also didn't pick up an early and important, extremely plot significant clue about the taint.)
      - internaut 10y ago
        Gene Wolfe is better than Robert Jordan and could surpass Tolkien. He is a currently unrecognized Giant, on the level of our new Shakespeare. Literally every famous author you've heard of says it. Gene Wolfe is what the journeymen read to improve their craft but he is little known outside rarefied circles. I wrote a piece 10 days ago (so before the election) explaining why a reading of Gene Wolfe's The Book of the New Sun explains Peter Thiel's motivations in backing Trump. He was following a thread nobody else saw. So many smart people, yes on the alt right also, are missing a much bigger picture. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12884413 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12884413 It is not an exaggeration that this book changed my life. You don't have to be a neoreactionary to read it but reading it alongside Joeseph Tainter's Collapse of Complex Societies is a wonderful and enriching life experience that will definitely change how you view the world. In addition I strongly recommend you watch Peter Thiel's videos on Youtube such as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw-rxtwhzcY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw-rxtwhzcY Tainter, Thiel, Wolfe, Moldbug. If you wish to scry deeply into the world, that's how I'd start. Many people reading this will be liberals or progressives. To them I say, this is a rabbit hole nobody else is going to recommend, if you sincerely are interested in the order of the right's thought, here it is.
hga 10y ago
One way of viewing it is that it's akin to the original neo-conservatives, who were Communists who lost faith in it. If you remember William Kristol trying to be the anti-Trump leader, his father Irving was one of its founders (note that this is decades before "neo-con" got its current meaning). Lots of us are libertarians or conservatives who've lost faith in those, and are pursuing and defining a new Right that's by definition an alternative to the existing Right. Me, I was a paleoconservative. As far as a strict definition, the best I've seen so far is former libertarian Vox Day's initial attempt, 16 points which you can find at http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html http://voxday.blogspot.com/2016/08/what-alt-right-is.html Note that as a matter of taxonomy, he divides it into the Alt White, such as the Daily Stormer types and a group he can't belong to, and a much larger Alt West, I can dig that up for you if you want, but obviously the Alt West isn't obsessed with the Joooos, is therefore unabashedly Christian or at least believing, well, here's his 4th point: The Alt Right believes Western civilization is the pinnacle of human achievement and supports its three foundational pillars: Christianity, the European nations, and the Graeco-Roman legacy. The total antisemite types, I gather they don't much like Christianity because of its Jewish origins, from Jesus to the Old Testament, they're certainly fond of a lot of pagan icons. The combativeness of point 3 is a personal characteristic of his, but is pretty essential, and you can see how Trump is aligned with it (although, frankly, if implicitly telling the press to FU is what you need to enjoy a steak dinner with your family in peace...). Point 12 is particularly important: "The Alt Right doesn't care what you think of it.", or more simply put, "We Don't Care." Note Trump's war on Political Correctness, which alone won him more than a few votes, lots of people are utterly sick of it. Obviously many of the points will send anyone on the left screaming, and certainly there's no universal agreement on any of this---forget it being inchoate, humans being humans there never will be!---but you can take it as being at least somewhat representative of the Alt Right.
- masondixon 10y ago
  Wow, as a Trump supporter, I find this really scary ("what the alt right is"). I honestly did not know this is what the Alt Right was purporting to be. But, this is not what Trump is about. Trump's policies do not reflect your manifesto here. If you visit The_Donald Reddit, this is what most young Trump supporters are. They are opposed to SJWs, BLM, and third-wave feminists, because they do not think that their actions are helping them achieve their goals, and others just want to make fun of this fact. The Alt Right certainly does lurk there, and I would say it is a good recruiting ground. If you click on the Discord button in the sidebar, you will find a default chat room for The_Donald crew where it says "no racist/Nazi shit", but then there are recommendations for places to go for "free-er speech". This makes me nauseas to think about. I get the feeling very dark places lie beyond here. Sure, on the other side of the spectrum is the The New Black Panthers, and Communists, but I do feel like the right has scarier extremities. If Bannon is for the Alt-Right as written in that article, then I am scared as fuck about him in the White House.
551199 10y ago
There isn't really alt-right not at least in the sense its portrait. People who lean right and don't agree with old republican base seem to be portrait as such. It's just word thinking.