5 ms·

I have a huge horse in this fight, because I work for an online casino/slot machine manufacture. The following is my opinion, bl.a I know at least one physical

by tomjen3 10y ago

I have a huge horse in this fight, because I work for an online casino/slot machine manufacture. The following is my opinion, bl.a I know at least one physical casino where the tax authorities are very happy looking the other way, as patrons gamble tons of dirty cash. They do look very intently on the income and track it carefully because there is a percentage fee on gambling. Presumably that is why people are allowed to gamble freely. I can come up with a few arguments against your idea - on the balance it is sound, but what should the limit be on "nominal"? I can go to the cinema on a weekly basis, which with ticket prices, popcorn and other concessions can be quite an expensive hobby, or I can hit the casinos a couple times a year where I could spend the same amount of money - it is all entertainment and who is to say one is better for me than the other? I don't know any country that has a limit on how much alcohol you can buy at a time (most have age restrictions, some have time and place restrictions, some won't sell you if you are already drunk), yet there are alcoholics in any place. Should we ban or limit alcohol to some nominal amount? If not, why should we treat gambling differently? That said, I am all about making it easy for people to see how much they have spent, and of course be honest upfront.

ikeboy 10y ago
> Should we ban or limit alcohol to some nominal amount? If not, why should we treat gambling differently? No, because nobody steals $4 million to buy alcohol. Alcoholics don't tend to be spending anywhere near the numbers in OP. Even if nominal was 0, the proposal would still prevent stealing or borrowed money being gambled. It's not an essential part of the proposal. If tax authorities are overlooking theft being gambled because they get a cut, then incentives have not been lined up properly. Theft causes a negative externality greater than the thief's gain, so society should not want theft, and if it does then there's a problem.
- tomjen3 10y ago
  However some alcoholics spend so much time getting drunk/being drunk they can't do their jobs and so end up on the street. I don't object that nobody should gamble on stolen or borrowed money (though some hedge funds may disagree), but that is different from having some nominal limit. For one how about savings? How about retired people with too much time and large pensions? How about saving up for a honeymoon in vegas?
- NTripleOne 10y ago
  What about the alcoholic who drinks himself half to death and ends up on life support with no insurance? The kind that literally cost hundreds of thousands in medical expenses to keep alive for another day.
SilasX 10y ago
Why would tax authorities be happy to capture the tax on a few percent of illicit earnings rather than be able to take down a big RICO evader?
- tomjen3 10y ago
  As it was explained to me it was a relatively simple way to recapture some additional tax funds. Also this wasn't the US, Denmark do prosecute criminals, but we don't have anything like RICO.
  - SilasX 10y ago
    By RICO I just meant "big cases involving major criminal enterprises". (And I should have said "a big tax evader under RICO" rather than imply that they were evading RICO itself...)
  - icantdrive55 10y ago
    RICO statutes sound like a great legal tool. They have been abused. They need to be amended. We picture they are being used to go after Mob types. They use them whenever they can. How do I know? I almost got into trouble giving my parents a bit over $10,000 cash years ago. A bank teller turned me into the IRS. Bank employees can be awarded money for turning in any amount of money "they feel" might be suspect. It doesn't even have to be over $10,000. Yes--a bank teller. Anyone in that bank. Got a call from the IRS. They mentioned I could get my parents in trouble. They stated this is a "curtesy call", but it scared the chit out of me. They mentioned the RICO statues--in a joking way. I went to the library to look up RICO statutes. Yea, this is hilarious? I sold a car--I restored, and gave my mom money she could use. Never in a million years, did I think she could get in legal trouble. I still remember paying a useless lawyer $500 at 5 a.m. to basically say, "give me a ten thousand dollar retainer." I said, "but what have I don't illegailly?" He paused. "Well nothing?" I walked out of his office, thinking this is a weird system. I still get his lousy Christmas cards. Yes--this stuff happens all the time.
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
pavel_lishin 10y ago
> I have a huge horse in this fight I love this mixed analogy.
phillc73 10y ago
> I don't know any country that has a limit on how much alcohol you can buy at a time (most have age restrictions, some have time and place restrictions, some won't sell you if you are already drunk), Similar, but different, the UK does restrict the amount of non-prescription pain killers you can buy. I once tried to buy five packets of Nurofen (Ibuprofen) from a supermarket and was restricted to just two packets. I simply went to the next supermarket up the road and bought two more packets. If there was a limit on how much alcohol people could buy at one time, wouldn't they just do the same thing?
- schoen 10y ago
  The U.K. really restricts ibuprofen this way? In the U.S. I think these restrictions have been applied only to methamphetamine precursors (pseudoephedrine and maybe others), while opiates have been made prescription-only.
  - thefalcon 10y ago
    And in the US you have to present your ID for pseudoephedrine which is presumably getting linked to some database to prevent you from walking down the street to get two more boxes there.
  - NTripleOne 10y ago
    OTC analgesics are a common suicide (attempt) method. It's just suicide prevention. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmd9HUkOQHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmd9HUkOQHk

by tomjen3 10y ago

ikeboy 10y ago

> Should we ban or limit alcohol to some nominal amount? If not, why should we treat gambling differently? No, because nobody steals $4 million to buy alcohol. Alcoholics don't tend to be spending anywhere near the numbers in OP. Even if nominal was 0, the proposal would still prevent stealing or borrowed money being gambled. It's not an essential part of the proposal. If tax authorities are overlooking theft being gambled because they get a cut, then incentives have not been lined up properly. Theft causes a negative externality greater than the thief's gain, so society should not want theft, and if it does then there's a problem.

tomjen3 10y ago
However some alcoholics spend so much time getting drunk/being drunk they can't do their jobs and so end up on the street. I don't object that nobody should gamble on stolen or borrowed money (though some hedge funds may disagree), but that is different from having some nominal limit. For one how about savings? How about retired people with too much time and large pensions? How about saving up for a honeymoon in vegas?
NTripleOne 10y ago
What about the alcoholic who drinks himself half to death and ends up on life support with no insurance? The kind that literally cost hundreds of thousands in medical expenses to keep alive for another day.

SilasX 10y ago

Why would tax authorities be happy to capture the tax on a few percent of illicit earnings rather than be able to take down a big RICO evader?

tomjen3 10y ago
As it was explained to me it was a relatively simple way to recapture some additional tax funds. Also this wasn't the US, Denmark do prosecute criminals, but we don't have anything like RICO.
- SilasX 10y ago
  By RICO I just meant "big cases involving major criminal enterprises". (And I should have said "a big tax evader under RICO" rather than imply that they were evading RICO itself...)
- icantdrive55 10y ago
  RICO statutes sound like a great legal tool. They have been abused. They need to be amended. We picture they are being used to go after Mob types. They use them whenever they can. How do I know? I almost got into trouble giving my parents a bit over $10,000 cash years ago. A bank teller turned me into the IRS. Bank employees can be awarded money for turning in any amount of money "they feel" might be suspect. It doesn't even have to be over $10,000. Yes--a bank teller. Anyone in that bank. Got a call from the IRS. They mentioned I could get my parents in trouble. They stated this is a "curtesy call", but it scared the chit out of me. They mentioned the RICO statues--in a joking way. I went to the library to look up RICO statutes. Yea, this is hilarious? I sold a car--I restored, and gave my mom money she could use. Never in a million years, did I think she could get in legal trouble. I still remember paying a useless lawyer $500 at 5 a.m. to basically say, "give me a ten thousand dollar retainer." I said, "but what have I don't illegailly?" He paused. "Well nothing?" I walked out of his office, thinking this is a weird system. I still get his lousy Christmas cards. Yes--this stuff happens all the time.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago

pavel_lishin 10y ago

> I have a huge horse in this fight I love this mixed analogy.

phillc73 10y ago

> I don't know any country that has a limit on how much alcohol you can buy at a time (most have age restrictions, some have time and place restrictions, some won't sell you if you are already drunk), Similar, but different, the UK does restrict the amount of non-prescription pain killers you can buy. I once tried to buy five packets of Nurofen (Ibuprofen) from a supermarket and was restricted to just two packets. I simply went to the next supermarket up the road and bought two more packets. If there was a limit on how much alcohol people could buy at one time, wouldn't they just do the same thing?

schoen 10y ago
The U.K. really restricts ibuprofen this way? In the U.S. I think these restrictions have been applied only to methamphetamine precursors (pseudoephedrine and maybe others), while opiates have been made prescription-only.
- thefalcon 10y ago
  And in the US you have to present your ID for pseudoephedrine which is presumably getting linked to some database to prevent you from walking down the street to get two more boxes there.
- NTripleOne 10y ago
  OTC analgesics are a common suicide (attempt) method. It's just suicide prevention. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmd9HUkOQHk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmd9HUkOQHk