7 ms·

It is also a stupid strategy. 60m people, many in counties that voted for Obama twice... And the left wants to call them all racists and bigots because they we

by fixxer 10y ago

It is also a stupid strategy. 60m people, many in counties that voted for Obama twice... And the left wants to call them all racists and bigots because they weren't as motivated by LGBT and gender issues compared to supporting free speech (fuck safe spaces), avoiding more neocon foreign policy (Syria, Yemen), and blocking free form globalization? Good luck. There was once a time when democrats led the charge on these issues. WTF happened?

malnourish 10y ago
I voted against Trump because I am afraid of what he might do to the environment (like appointing a climate change denier to office) and to our civil liberties (like appointing anti choice justices). There are legitimately bigoted things that came from Trump supports and arguably Trump himself. I don't understand this rising hatred towards "safe spaces", but maybe I don't think of them like you do. To me, I see a safe space as something like a home, where someone can relax and be themselves. Every single person should have access to a "safe space". If your idea of a "safe space" is something different please let me know.
- fixxer 10y ago
  Walk onto a college campus. This isn't about private property. This is about suppressing discussion because you disagree with it. That mentality is why identity politics is so bad. Instead of seeking out people that disagree with us, we're isolating ourselves both digitally and physically within our little tribes. I'm pro-choice BTW, but it isn't a top issue compared to the others. Call me a bigot as much as you want, it won't change my vote.
  - c0nducktr 10y ago
    > Walk onto a college campus. Ok, then what.
    - fixxer 10y ago
      Well, in your specific case, continue doing what you normally do and act surprised when the midterms come around and the left loses seats.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - c0nducktr 10y ago
        Cool how you think you know me. How about in a general case then?
    - labster 10y ago
      Head into a computer lab, and log on to HN.
  - malnourish 10y ago
    I attended a private (nominally Christian) liberal arts college and I find that I do agree with you on the suppression of discussion that many people found disagreeable. That's a legitimate problem. I was a member of a free thinkers group there and we were derided for being open atheists/antitheists on an "inclusive" campus. I think there should be places for open discussion that makes us uncomfortable especially on college campuses. And while I do find demonizing people and shutting the door to conversation to be morally reprehensible, I find demonizing people and basing policy on such demonization to be worse. I too hope that we can have conversations about controversial ideas (I hold many of them myself), but I don't think saying eliminating safe spaces is a way to accomplish that.
  - cerebellum42 10y ago
    >Instead of seeking out people that disagree with us, we're isolating ourselves both digitally and physically within our little tribes. I completely agree that this is a huge issue, but many Trump supporters seem to fall right into this behavior as well, basically going "if it's not on Breitbart, it can't be true!". In fact, his whole campaign was engineered to convince people that everyone else is lying while only he tells it how it is (while framing his arguments with blatant lies left and right)
    - fixxer 10y ago
      Your perception of Trump supporters is based on those you know personally? Where are you located? If not, then have you considered that your perception might be influenced by mass media and your own echo chamber? I live in Chicago and worked for the Progressives, so I feel pretty good about my lens. I also don't read any of that alt right garbage. Edit: I would argue that the tribalism and unwillingness to listen is represented by small, but noisy, factions on both sides and that by and large people voted according to rational concerns. If we can purge those extremes from both our respective parties, we'd be better off and much happier.
- tdkl 10y ago
  Your idea is just that - your idea. Term safe space is being perverted by people who can't cope with feelings caused by reality of every day occasions - they're "triggered" for every thing they feel non happiness. It's a direct result of being pampered from primary schools on with "everybody is a winner" trope. America is specially obsessed with happiness and if somehow someone is causing icky feelings, these people scream about "safe space" - it's what they've been let all these years anyway. When a YALE student can't debate with a proper tone with the teacher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ZVEVufWFI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ZVEVufWFI
proksoup 10y ago
Trump supports free speech? He promised to strengthen libel laws (pretty sure there aren't any such thing at the federal level now ...) He said a lot of things freely, and a lot of them are interpreted by many as racist or otherwise categorized as bigotry. I can see the viewpoint that supporting Trump is much more about supporting bigotry than it is about supporting free speech, based on his words and his promises. I have more trouble seeing the viewpoint of the inverse, at this point still.
lightbyte 10y ago
>avoiding more neocon foreign policy (Syria, Yemen), and blocking free form globalization Boy are you in for a shock when you see his shortlist for SoS.
- rokosbasilisk 10y ago
  Apparently so are you
allemagne 10y ago
I heavily doubt your characterization of the average reasons people voted Trump. Only one candidate threatened journalists with "opening libel laws," where was the hand-wringing about "Free Speech" then? Where was the worry about neocon foreign policy when candidates endorsed torture, carpet bombing the middle east, killing the families of terrorists, and reimbursing ourselves with Iraq's oil after the invasion? People mostly choose their candidate and make justifications after the fact. I do believe that the rhetoric of the left probably drove conservative voters away, but that has nothing to do with what "Free Speech" actually refers to and a lot more to do with cultural values, hating the liberal elite for being liberal more than being elite, and a vague sense of "feeling attacked."

by fixxer 10y ago

malnourish 10y ago

I voted against Trump because I am afraid of what he might do to the environment (like appointing a climate change denier to office) and to our civil liberties (like appointing anti choice justices). There are legitimately bigoted things that came from Trump supports and arguably Trump himself. I don't understand this rising hatred towards "safe spaces", but maybe I don't think of them like you do. To me, I see a safe space as something like a home, where someone can relax and be themselves. Every single person should have access to a "safe space". If your idea of a "safe space" is something different please let me know.

fixxer 10y ago
Walk onto a college campus. This isn't about private property. This is about suppressing discussion because you disagree with it. That mentality is why identity politics is so bad. Instead of seeking out people that disagree with us, we're isolating ourselves both digitally and physically within our little tribes. I'm pro-choice BTW, but it isn't a top issue compared to the others. Call me a bigot as much as you want, it won't change my vote.
- c0nducktr 10y ago
  > Walk onto a college campus. Ok, then what.
  - fixxer 10y ago
    Well, in your specific case, continue doing what you normally do and act surprised when the midterms come around and the left loses seats.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - c0nducktr 10y ago
      Cool how you think you know me. How about in a general case then?
  - labster 10y ago
    Head into a computer lab, and log on to HN.
- malnourish 10y ago
  I attended a private (nominally Christian) liberal arts college and I find that I do agree with you on the suppression of discussion that many people found disagreeable. That's a legitimate problem. I was a member of a free thinkers group there and we were derided for being open atheists/antitheists on an "inclusive" campus. I think there should be places for open discussion that makes us uncomfortable especially on college campuses. And while I do find demonizing people and shutting the door to conversation to be morally reprehensible, I find demonizing people and basing policy on such demonization to be worse. I too hope that we can have conversations about controversial ideas (I hold many of them myself), but I don't think saying eliminating safe spaces is a way to accomplish that.
- cerebellum42 10y ago
  >Instead of seeking out people that disagree with us, we're isolating ourselves both digitally and physically within our little tribes. I completely agree that this is a huge issue, but many Trump supporters seem to fall right into this behavior as well, basically going "if it's not on Breitbart, it can't be true!". In fact, his whole campaign was engineered to convince people that everyone else is lying while only he tells it how it is (while framing his arguments with blatant lies left and right)
  - fixxer 10y ago
    Your perception of Trump supporters is based on those you know personally? Where are you located? If not, then have you considered that your perception might be influenced by mass media and your own echo chamber? I live in Chicago and worked for the Progressives, so I feel pretty good about my lens. I also don't read any of that alt right garbage. Edit: I would argue that the tribalism and unwillingness to listen is represented by small, but noisy, factions on both sides and that by and large people voted according to rational concerns. If we can purge those extremes from both our respective parties, we'd be better off and much happier.
tdkl 10y ago
Your idea is just that - your idea. Term safe space is being perverted by people who can't cope with feelings caused by reality of every day occasions - they're "triggered" for every thing they feel non happiness. It's a direct result of being pampered from primary schools on with "everybody is a winner" trope. America is specially obsessed with happiness and if somehow someone is causing icky feelings, these people scream about "safe space" - it's what they've been let all these years anyway. When a YALE student can't debate with a proper tone with the teacher: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ZVEVufWFI https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6ZVEVufWFI

proksoup 10y ago

Trump supports free speech? He promised to strengthen libel laws (pretty sure there aren't any such thing at the federal level now ...) He said a lot of things freely, and a lot of them are interpreted by many as racist or otherwise categorized as bigotry. I can see the viewpoint that supporting Trump is much more about supporting bigotry than it is about supporting free speech, based on his words and his promises. I have more trouble seeing the viewpoint of the inverse, at this point still.

lightbyte 10y ago

>avoiding more neocon foreign policy (Syria, Yemen), and blocking free form globalization Boy are you in for a shock when you see his shortlist for SoS.

rokosbasilisk 10y ago
Apparently so are you

allemagne 10y ago

I heavily doubt your characterization of the average reasons people voted Trump. Only one candidate threatened journalists with "opening libel laws," where was the hand-wringing about "Free Speech" then? Where was the worry about neocon foreign policy when candidates endorsed torture, carpet bombing the middle east, killing the families of terrorists, and reimbursing ourselves with Iraq's oil after the invasion? People mostly choose their candidate and make justifications after the fact. I do believe that the rhetoric of the left probably drove conservative voters away, but that has nothing to do with what "Free Speech" actually refers to and a lot more to do with cultural values, hating the liberal elite for being liberal more than being elite, and a vague sense of "feeling attacked."