8 ms·

Announcing .NET Core 1.1

163 points by benaadams 10y ago

0xmohit 10y ago
Half of HN front page today is Microsoft, .NET, Visual Studio, Connect.
- arenaninja 10y ago
  Lots of news coming out of Microsoft's Connect event. C# is a great language, .NET Core makes it available cross-platform, and now the tooling is being announced (whether it's on par with what's available on Windows is TBD)
  - hnrodey 10y ago
    IMO The ecosystem of tools on Windows for C#/.NET is what makes it special stack. Resharper and LinqPad are two notable tools that I consider vital to my everyday workflow that just simply don't exist for macOS. At home I use macOS primarily and I'm trying to ramp up on .NET Core for a few personal projects and I'm having a tough time trying to find a suitable dev environment that provides me with the same speed/comfort that I get on a Windows machine and so far it's tough. Project Rider on macOS is coming along nicely but that still leaves no LINQPad which is super handy for working on small bits of code with near instant results. The feedback loop is so short when using Linqpad it's insane.
    - mattmanser 10y ago
      You haven't needed linqpad since vs 2015, which has a C# repl in it. I also don't get the point of resharper. Apart from being slow as molasses, it's ridiculously over opinionated to the point where is makes existing code a mess of squiggles. And it's intellisense is super dumb as it redlines while you're still typing, which is very distracting. The only great part of it, the quick find, is now in vs 2015. Ctrl-,. I think it literally just came in with the last patch.
      - hnrodey 10y ago
        I wasn't aware of the enhancement in VS2015. I'll definitely look at that functionality. VS2015 has made up a lot of ground for what R# lacked but the static analysis still isn't there. You have to learn what errors/notes mean and how to interpret the results because they are very meaningful. Point blank - writing code with Resharper will lead to higher quality code. And yeah, some part of my Resharper love is just an old habit. I've been using R# since VS2005 when the IDE lacked a lot of critical features that R# plugged. Now a lot of it is just habits and keyboard shortcuts and it's only a few hundred dollars for a license which still pays for itself throughout the course of the year.
        mattmanser 10y ago
        I simply disagree about higher quality code. One of my junior colleagues once did a "let's apply a bunch of resharper recommendations". It was not pretty. Its suggestions are almost always pedantic and puerile that don't improve code quality in any meaningful way, at least in the out-of-the-box config. It's nice when it picks up some stupidity like an always false condition, but the out-of-the-box instance has so many stupid rules that after turning more and more off it off, I gave up on it. And this isn't the first time I've given it a go.
    - jombiezebus 10y ago
      For working on small bits of code with quick results, https://dotnetfiddle.net/ https://dotnetfiddle.net/ is a great online solution.
- UK-AL 10y ago
  It's their developer event today.
- WayneBro 10y ago
  I'm a Windows guy. I love Windows, but I wasn't even going to read any of these because I don't use .net core and I don't use .net on Linux at all. If I build something cross platform it's with node or electron python, etc. However after reading the top comment on this post, about how ASP.net core is one of the fastest performers, that may have all changed. I might actually look at .net core now.
- baq 10y ago
  is this bad, good, neutral? i personally love it.
- roryisok 10y ago
  I counted 12 out of 30 links just now, seems like MS PR is in overdrive right now
  - tracker1 10y ago
    It happens for any major developer conference... same things happen with google and amazon at their confs.
- bargl 10y ago
  Yeah and I've noticed any day a lot of tech releases this happens, whether it is google, apple, microsoft, etc.
- komali2 10y ago
  Other threads are accusing astroturfing. I don't want to start a witchhunt, but looking at the user accounts, we've got one that has a nearly 2 year gap between their last comment and this week when they started posting, an account 1 day old, another account with a huge commenting gap to date, and a fairly normal looking account. I guess it's up to the community whether they care someone was paid to submit the article they're reading and commenting on. It's not like we haven't been having interesting discussions, and one way or another these things would have made it to the front page of HN considering the connect() event is today.
  - program_monkey 10y ago
    Other threads are accusing astroturfing There seems to be little question that Microsoft has targeted HN. The other morning I saw a banal MS post go up at 4am Eastern Time and amass almost 500 upvotes in half an hour. I seldom see truly cross-cutting, interesting stories see that rate during prime time.
brandur 10y ago
Here's a pretty interesting note on .NET Core 1.1's performance improvements from round 13 of Techempower's framework benchmarks [1] (linked from the announcement above): > Thanks to Microsoft’s herculean performance tuning effort, ASP.NET—in the new cross-platform friendly form of ASP.NET Core—is now a top performer in our Plaintext test, making it among the fastest platforms at the fundamentals of web request routing. The degree of improvement is absolutely astonishing, going from 2,120 requests per second on Mono in Round 11 to 1,822,366 requests per second on ASP.NET Core in Round 13. That’s an approximately 85,900% improvement, and that doesn’t even account for Round 11’s hardware being faster than our new hardware. Here are the benchmarks in question [2]. There are a few caveats attached, like that it's still not quite at the top and the best improvement is under the plaintext benchmark in particular, but nonetheless a very impressive effort on the part of the .NET team. [1] https://www.techempower.com/blog/2016/11/16/framework-benchmarks-round-13/ https://www.techempower.com/blog/2016/11/16/framework-benchm... [2] https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r13&hw=ph&test=plaintext https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r13&hw=...
- 0xmohit 10y ago
  TechEmpower also reports that the performance of ASP.NET Core running on Linux is approximately 760 times faster than it was one year ago. Since TechEmpower started measuring benchmarks in March 2013, they have never seen such a performance improvement as they have observed in ASP.NET Core over the last year.
  - arenaninja 10y ago
    The pessimist's take: there was a lot to improve. My exposure to C# and .NET is small enough that I'm not sure what this means in terms of PHP. Is this like a PHP4 to PHP5.3 or more like PHP5 to PHP7 change?
    - phaed 10y ago
      PHP to Hack
    - 10y ago
skyde 10y ago
Could someone explain why "ASP.NET Core 1.1" Kestrel webserver decided to use LibUV DllImpor [1] instead of .NET Asynchronous Server Socket (System.Net.Sockets) [2]. Does that mean that the managed implementation of Async socket is broken and was too slow? [1] "https://github.com/aspnet/KestrelHttpServer/blob/dev/src/Mic.. https://github.com/aspnet/KestrelHttpServer/blob/dev/src/Mic.... [2] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bew39x2a(v=vs.110).. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bew39x2a(v=vs.110).....
- halter73 10y ago
  It means that development on Kestrel started before work on making System.Net.Sockets cross-platform was completed. The programming model for libuv and .NET Sockets is different enough (mostly in terms of threading) to make the transition non-trivial. Some recent basic testing show .NET Sockets perform at least as well as libuv. We are strongly considering transitioning Kestrel to Sockets at the same time we migrate from Streams to Pipelines. [1] Pipelines are basically push based Streams that require less total allocations to use. This is because Pipelines allow better memory sharing between producers and consumers. [1] https://github.com/dotnet/corefxlab/tree/master/src/System.IO.Pipelines https://github.com/dotnet/corefxlab/tree/master/src/System.I... Disclosure: In case it wasn't already obvious, I work for Microsoft on Kestrel.
  - simooooo 10y ago
    Are there any plans for RIO?
    - halter73 10y ago
      In the long term yes. When we switch to System.Net.Sockets it will be done with an emphasis on transport agnosticism. [1] ATM, it looks like Sockets will be the priority since it's a cross platform API more similar to what libuv currently provides. [1] https://github.com/aspnet/KestrelHttpServer/issues/828 https://github.com/aspnet/KestrelHttpServer/issues/828
  - naasking 10y ago
tree_of_item 10y ago
Ok, it's another release so let me ask this again: can you manage .NET projects without dealing with an IDE like Visual Studio or MonoDevelop or whatever? And for whatever solution you recommend, do people actually use it in the wild or is it just a technical preview thing? I'm really looking for something like `cargo build` or `go build`, but it looks like .NET just loves their IDEs and XML based configuration files.
- steverb 10y ago
  I know with previous versions of .NET you could, using MSBUILD. That's how we actually built things on the CI server. There were .csproj files and other XML files to deal with, but you can edit those by hand if you feel the need to. I wouldn't want to have to do things that way though.
- sakopov 10y ago
  Our CI build server has been building .NET 4.5, 4.6 and .NET CORE components via msbuild.
- Locke1689 10y ago
  It's still in preview, but you can build .NET Core apps with the .NET CLI tool: https://www.microsoft.com/net/core#windowscmd https://www.microsoft.com/net/core#windowscmd
- michaeldwan 10y ago
  Right on the dotnet core getting started page: https://www.microsoft.com/net/core#linuxredhat https://www.microsoft.com/net/core#linuxredhat dotnet build dotnet run dotnet test updated: formatting
  - tree_of_item 10y ago
    Thanks, I don't understand why people were recommending csc.exe and msbuild if this was a thing...
    - 10y ago
TACIXAT 10y ago
Was really hoping for System.DirectoryServices in this release but they pushed it to 1.2.
mmanfrin 10y ago
I have never developed outside of OSX/Linux. My languages are Ruby, Javascript, and the things in that domain. Can someone ELIaRubyDev what .NET is? I used to think it was a language, but I've since been told that the language I think of as ".Net" is actually C#.
- hebrewhammer 10y ago
  .Net is both a run time and an echo system. C# is one of several programming languages (VB, F#) that get compiled into CIL (common intermediate language) and executed on the .Net run time CLR (common language runtime). Think of Java being compiled and executed on the JVM (java virtual machine).
- aloisdg 10y ago
  .NET is a framework. C# is language. .NET will give you stuff like IO, collections, stuff (FCL) who will run into a VM (security, memory management, etc (CLR). [You can use .NET with Ruby in fact][1]. [1]: http://ironruby.net/ http://ironruby.net/
- mwfunk 10y ago
  This explains it much more concisely yet thoroughly than anybody could in a post here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework It's a (in theory) OS-neutral platform. It's a huge software stack with many different languages on top of it, all of which target a VM (in the Java sense, not the VMWare sense) that makes it theoretically platform-independent. It allows the different languages to share a common standard library, and that standard library is vast. That being said, my impression is that most people who write code for the .NET platform use C# to do so. It's been around for almost 15 years now [!]. I can't believe it's been that long.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

163 points by benaadams 10y ago

0xmohit 10y ago

Half of HN front page today is Microsoft, .NET, Visual Studio, Connect.

arenaninja 10y ago
Lots of news coming out of Microsoft's Connect event. C# is a great language, .NET Core makes it available cross-platform, and now the tooling is being announced (whether it's on par with what's available on Windows is TBD)
- hnrodey 10y ago
  IMO The ecosystem of tools on Windows for C#/.NET is what makes it special stack. Resharper and LinqPad are two notable tools that I consider vital to my everyday workflow that just simply don't exist for macOS. At home I use macOS primarily and I'm trying to ramp up on .NET Core for a few personal projects and I'm having a tough time trying to find a suitable dev environment that provides me with the same speed/comfort that I get on a Windows machine and so far it's tough. Project Rider on macOS is coming along nicely but that still leaves no LINQPad which is super handy for working on small bits of code with near instant results. The feedback loop is so short when using Linqpad it's insane.
  - mattmanser 10y ago
    You haven't needed linqpad since vs 2015, which has a C# repl in it. I also don't get the point of resharper. Apart from being slow as molasses, it's ridiculously over opinionated to the point where is makes existing code a mess of squiggles. And it's intellisense is super dumb as it redlines while you're still typing, which is very distracting. The only great part of it, the quick find, is now in vs 2015. Ctrl-,. I think it literally just came in with the last patch.
    - hnrodey 10y ago
      I wasn't aware of the enhancement in VS2015. I'll definitely look at that functionality. VS2015 has made up a lot of ground for what R# lacked but the static analysis still isn't there. You have to learn what errors/notes mean and how to interpret the results because they are very meaningful. Point blank - writing code with Resharper will lead to higher quality code. And yeah, some part of my Resharper love is just an old habit. I've been using R# since VS2005 when the IDE lacked a lot of critical features that R# plugged. Now a lot of it is just habits and keyboard shortcuts and it's only a few hundred dollars for a license which still pays for itself throughout the course of the year.
      - mattmanser 10y ago
        I simply disagree about higher quality code. One of my junior colleagues once did a "let's apply a bunch of resharper recommendations". It was not pretty. Its suggestions are almost always pedantic and puerile that don't improve code quality in any meaningful way, at least in the out-of-the-box config. It's nice when it picks up some stupidity like an always false condition, but the out-of-the-box instance has so many stupid rules that after turning more and more off it off, I gave up on it. And this isn't the first time I've given it a go.
  - jombiezebus 10y ago
    For working on small bits of code with quick results, https://dotnetfiddle.net/ https://dotnetfiddle.net/ is a great online solution.
UK-AL 10y ago
It's their developer event today.
WayneBro 10y ago
I'm a Windows guy. I love Windows, but I wasn't even going to read any of these because I don't use .net core and I don't use .net on Linux at all. If I build something cross platform it's with node or electron python, etc. However after reading the top comment on this post, about how ASP.net core is one of the fastest performers, that may have all changed. I might actually look at .net core now.
baq 10y ago
is this bad, good, neutral? i personally love it.
roryisok 10y ago
I counted 12 out of 30 links just now, seems like MS PR is in overdrive right now
- tracker1 10y ago
  It happens for any major developer conference... same things happen with google and amazon at their confs.
bargl 10y ago
Yeah and I've noticed any day a lot of tech releases this happens, whether it is google, apple, microsoft, etc.
komali2 10y ago
Other threads are accusing astroturfing. I don't want to start a witchhunt, but looking at the user accounts, we've got one that has a nearly 2 year gap between their last comment and this week when they started posting, an account 1 day old, another account with a huge commenting gap to date, and a fairly normal looking account. I guess it's up to the community whether they care someone was paid to submit the article they're reading and commenting on. It's not like we haven't been having interesting discussions, and one way or another these things would have made it to the front page of HN considering the connect() event is today.
- program_monkey 10y ago
  Other threads are accusing astroturfing There seems to be little question that Microsoft has targeted HN. The other morning I saw a banal MS post go up at 4am Eastern Time and amass almost 500 upvotes in half an hour. I seldom see truly cross-cutting, interesting stories see that rate during prime time.

brandur 10y ago

Here's a pretty interesting note on .NET Core 1.1's performance improvements from round 13 of Techempower's framework benchmarks [1] (linked from the announcement above): > Thanks to Microsoft’s herculean performance tuning effort, ASP.NET—in the new cross-platform friendly form of ASP.NET Core—is now a top performer in our Plaintext test, making it among the fastest platforms at the fundamentals of web request routing. The degree of improvement is absolutely astonishing, going from 2,120 requests per second on Mono in Round 11 to 1,822,366 requests per second on ASP.NET Core in Round 13. That’s an approximately 85,900% improvement, and that doesn’t even account for Round 11’s hardware being faster than our new hardware. Here are the benchmarks in question [2]. There are a few caveats attached, like that it's still not quite at the top and the best improvement is under the plaintext benchmark in particular, but nonetheless a very impressive effort on the part of the .NET team. [1] https://www.techempower.com/blog/2016/11/16/framework-benchmarks-round-13/ https://www.techempower.com/blog/2016/11/16/framework-benchm... [2] https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r13&hw=ph&test=plaintext https://www.techempower.com/benchmarks/#section=data-r13&hw=...

0xmohit 10y ago
TechEmpower also reports that the performance of ASP.NET Core running on Linux is approximately 760 times faster than it was one year ago. Since TechEmpower started measuring benchmarks in March 2013, they have never seen such a performance improvement as they have observed in ASP.NET Core over the last year.
- arenaninja 10y ago
  The pessimist's take: there was a lot to improve. My exposure to C# and .NET is small enough that I'm not sure what this means in terms of PHP. Is this like a PHP4 to PHP5.3 or more like PHP5 to PHP7 change?
  - phaed 10y ago
    PHP to Hack
  - 10y ago

skyde 10y ago

Could someone explain why "ASP.NET Core 1.1" Kestrel webserver decided to use LibUV DllImpor [1] instead of .NET Asynchronous Server Socket (System.Net.Sockets) [2]. Does that mean that the managed implementation of Async socket is broken and was too slow? [1] "https://github.com/aspnet/KestrelHttpServer/blob/dev/src/Mic.. https://github.com/aspnet/KestrelHttpServer/blob/dev/src/Mic.... [2] https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bew39x2a(v=vs.110).. https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bew39x2a(v=vs.110).....

halter73 10y ago
It means that development on Kestrel started before work on making System.Net.Sockets cross-platform was completed. The programming model for libuv and .NET Sockets is different enough (mostly in terms of threading) to make the transition non-trivial. Some recent basic testing show .NET Sockets perform at least as well as libuv. We are strongly considering transitioning Kestrel to Sockets at the same time we migrate from Streams to Pipelines. [1] Pipelines are basically push based Streams that require less total allocations to use. This is because Pipelines allow better memory sharing between producers and consumers. [1] https://github.com/dotnet/corefxlab/tree/master/src/System.IO.Pipelines https://github.com/dotnet/corefxlab/tree/master/src/System.I... Disclosure: In case it wasn't already obvious, I work for Microsoft on Kestrel.
- simooooo 10y ago
  Are there any plans for RIO?
  - halter73 10y ago
    In the long term yes. When we switch to System.Net.Sockets it will be done with an emphasis on transport agnosticism. [1] ATM, it looks like Sockets will be the priority since it's a cross platform API more similar to what libuv currently provides. [1] https://github.com/aspnet/KestrelHttpServer/issues/828 https://github.com/aspnet/KestrelHttpServer/issues/828
- naasking 10y ago

tree_of_item 10y ago

Ok, it's another release so let me ask this again: can you manage .NET projects without dealing with an IDE like Visual Studio or MonoDevelop or whatever? And for whatever solution you recommend, do people actually use it in the wild or is it just a technical preview thing? I'm really looking for something like `cargo build` or `go build`, but it looks like .NET just loves their IDEs and XML based configuration files.

steverb 10y ago
I know with previous versions of .NET you could, using MSBUILD. That's how we actually built things on the CI server. There were .csproj files and other XML files to deal with, but you can edit those by hand if you feel the need to. I wouldn't want to have to do things that way though.
sakopov 10y ago
Our CI build server has been building .NET 4.5, 4.6 and .NET CORE components via msbuild.
Locke1689 10y ago
It's still in preview, but you can build .NET Core apps with the .NET CLI tool: https://www.microsoft.com/net/core#windowscmd https://www.microsoft.com/net/core#windowscmd
michaeldwan 10y ago
Right on the dotnet core getting started page: https://www.microsoft.com/net/core#linuxredhat https://www.microsoft.com/net/core#linuxredhat dotnet build dotnet run dotnet test updated: formatting
- tree_of_item 10y ago
  Thanks, I don't understand why people were recommending csc.exe and msbuild if this was a thing...
  - 10y ago

TACIXAT 10y ago

Was really hoping for System.DirectoryServices in this release but they pushed it to 1.2.

mmanfrin 10y ago

I have never developed outside of OSX/Linux. My languages are Ruby, Javascript, and the things in that domain. Can someone ELIaRubyDev what .NET is? I used to think it was a language, but I've since been told that the language I think of as ".Net" is actually C#.

hebrewhammer 10y ago
.Net is both a run time and an echo system. C# is one of several programming languages (VB, F#) that get compiled into CIL (common intermediate language) and executed on the .Net run time CLR (common language runtime). Think of Java being compiled and executed on the JVM (java virtual machine).
aloisdg 10y ago
.NET is a framework. C# is language. .NET will give you stuff like IO, collections, stuff (FCL) who will run into a VM (security, memory management, etc (CLR). [You can use .NET with Ruby in fact][1]. [1]: http://ironruby.net/ http://ironruby.net/
mwfunk 10y ago
This explains it much more concisely yet thoroughly than anybody could in a post here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.NET_Framework It's a (in theory) OS-neutral platform. It's a huge software stack with many different languages on top of it, all of which target a VM (in the Java sense, not the VMWare sense) that makes it theoretically platform-independent. It allows the different languages to share a common standard library, and that standard library is vast. That being said, my impression is that most people who write code for the .NET platform use C# to do so. It's been around for almost 15 years now [!]. I can't believe it's been that long.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]