5 ms·

If I had to really take a guess here, this is what I'd speculate. This is only the first step for Visual Studio Mac. The next will be to begin bringing feature

If I had to really take a guess here, this is what I'd speculate. This is only the first step for Visual Studio Mac. The next will be to begin bringing feature parity to the Mac version (My gut feeling is that VB.NET won't make the leap, but with Roslyn, maybe I'm wrong). I feel this isn't stated enough. VSCode, albeit made by Microsoft, goes way beyond Microsoft's core interests. Given that you can now enable language support for around 470-ish languages, I don't think that their game here is to be a replacement for anything. I have an even crazier suspicion about what VSCode is really about. So if you've lived with Visual Studio for years, you know that it's been COM based for a looonnnnggg time (since inception). I think VSCode serves two interests. The first interest is to bring non-Microsoft users in the fold with the hopes that they may go "This ain't so bad, maybe I'll give other stuff a try". I think the second is that they need a playground to figure out how to, excuse me here, "unfuck" the core architecture of Visual Studio. If they can write suitable replacements for core functionality, let them bake and mature for some time, then BOOM! they can replace the VS components. Like I said, just a crazy opinion based on what I've seen so far.

vonklaus 10y ago
I agree, but would add that I think their core motivation is to drive developers to microsoft azure. I am sure they believe they would love mac users to buy more MS software but targeting non-ms devs this hard seems like they want to compete with AWS && google. AWS UX is a dumpster fire. Azure was quite nice from what I can tell. I love VS code and am a mac user. I also strongly dislike AWS as it is extremely complex and annoying. If there was amazing tooling, I would consider switching from digital ocean to azure.
- wmccullough 10y ago
  I'm currently undergoing a very long evaluation of both products. I agree, the AWS UX is a dumpster fire. Even simple things seem to make no sense, and if I had to guess without checking I'd say they went through a hyper growth of their cloud. I also agree that their long-play is Azure. You just wait, they'll put a major investment into IntelliJ or Eclipse to make it more Azure friendly too.
DonHopkins 10y ago
Mozilla underwent a process of "DeCOMification", because they went too far with XP/COM, and wanted to dial it way back. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__all__&product=&content=decomify&comments=0&comments=1 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=specif...
- mizzao 10y ago
  Can someone link to a synopsis describing what "COM" is? It's hard to search for. (e.g. microsoft com visual studio)
  - ld00d 10y ago
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model
  - JohnBooty 10y ago
    Yeah, COM and .NET are notoriously tough to Google because of their similarity to TLDs! I believe that .NET binaries, at least on Windows, are actually built atop COM but I'm not sure. Been a while since I've cared =) COM = Component Object Model. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model
    - WorldMaker 10y ago
      .NET binaries can export COM components (just as C/C++ and other languages may), but are not COM components by themselves. There is some confusion here because the part of the "export surface" design for .NET binaries/modules was originally designed to replace COM's "interface design language" (IDL) in a version of COM that was never quite finished. Coming back full circle the .NET "export surface" design was indeed recycled for the WinRT component model (the COM replacement of the WinRT/UWP stack) in its library metadata format (.winmd), which to .NET tools look like a .NET binary that is missing all of its (IL) code. Long story short, .NET was not built on top of COM but parts of it were designed to backwards compatibly replace it/inter-operate with it. (...and then some of those same parts reused in COM's eventual actual replacement.)
bbatha 10y ago
I think long term microsoft is planning on putting VSCode on Azure so you never have to leave your browser or the Azure bubble to write your apps.
- khellang 10y ago
  Fun Fact: VS Code started life in Azure as Project Monaco. It was later pulled into an Electron app and released as VS Code :)
- erikbye 10y ago
  That is Visual Studio Monaco, which is also the editor in VS Code.
dethswatch 10y ago
>"unfuck" the core architecture of Visual Studio. This is likely the reason we don't have a 64bit Studio too- just too much of a pain. Their arguments re speed and memory usage have been going on for years while I've gone from 2gb to 256gb and similar speed increases. Those arguments are becoming irrelevant and headed for laughable.
- wmccullough 10y ago
  I agree. Even if they decided to keep everything as x86, just rebuilding the COM pieces would boost performance.
  - dethswatch 10y ago
    Articles I've read says the Win and App divisions are still in love with COM and when Sinofsky got his way, we got 'Windows Store Apps' where everything ran under COM instead of everything running under .NET. Enter Win8 debacle and Sinofsky wisely decided he'd do other things.
    - int_19h 10y ago
      WinRT is the name of the thing, and while it's derived from COM (you still have IUnknown, for example), it fixes a lot of the latter's problems and fills missing gaps. For example, it has class inheritance (implemented as composition), a much simpler event pattern, drastically simplifies the whole apartment mess etc.
sreenadh 10y ago
Being a long time vs & MS user myself, your suspicion is genuine. I too suspect the same. I have been burnt too many times by MS. So now, the only ms products I use is skype & ms office.

vonklaus 10y ago

I agree, but would add that I think their core motivation is to drive developers to microsoft azure. I am sure they believe they would love mac users to buy more MS software but targeting non-ms devs this hard seems like they want to compete with AWS && google. AWS UX is a dumpster fire. Azure was quite nice from what I can tell. I love VS code and am a mac user. I also strongly dislike AWS as it is extremely complex and annoying. If there was amazing tooling, I would consider switching from digital ocean to azure.

wmccullough 10y ago
I'm currently undergoing a very long evaluation of both products. I agree, the AWS UX is a dumpster fire. Even simple things seem to make no sense, and if I had to guess without checking I'd say they went through a hyper growth of their cloud. I also agree that their long-play is Azure. You just wait, they'll put a major investment into IntelliJ or Eclipse to make it more Azure friendly too.

DonHopkins 10y ago

Mozilla underwent a process of "DeCOMification", because they went too far with XP/COM, and wanted to dial it way back. https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=specific&order=relevance+desc&bug_status=__all__&product=&content=decomify&comments=0&comments=1 https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=specif...

mizzao 10y ago
Can someone link to a synopsis describing what "COM" is? It's hard to search for. (e.g. microsoft com visual studio)
- ld00d 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model
- JohnBooty 10y ago
  Yeah, COM and .NET are notoriously tough to Google because of their similarity to TLDs! I believe that .NET binaries, at least on Windows, are actually built atop COM but I'm not sure. Been a while since I've cared =) COM = Component Object Model. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model
  - WorldMaker 10y ago
    .NET binaries can export COM components (just as C/C++ and other languages may), but are not COM components by themselves. There is some confusion here because the part of the "export surface" design for .NET binaries/modules was originally designed to replace COM's "interface design language" (IDL) in a version of COM that was never quite finished. Coming back full circle the .NET "export surface" design was indeed recycled for the WinRT component model (the COM replacement of the WinRT/UWP stack) in its library metadata format (.winmd), which to .NET tools look like a .NET binary that is missing all of its (IL) code. Long story short, .NET was not built on top of COM but parts of it were designed to backwards compatibly replace it/inter-operate with it. (...and then some of those same parts reused in COM's eventual actual replacement.)

bbatha 10y ago

I think long term microsoft is planning on putting VSCode on Azure so you never have to leave your browser or the Azure bubble to write your apps.

khellang 10y ago
Fun Fact: VS Code started life in Azure as Project Monaco. It was later pulled into an Electron app and released as VS Code :)
erikbye 10y ago
That is Visual Studio Monaco, which is also the editor in VS Code.

dethswatch 10y ago

>"unfuck" the core architecture of Visual Studio. This is likely the reason we don't have a 64bit Studio too- just too much of a pain. Their arguments re speed and memory usage have been going on for years while I've gone from 2gb to 256gb and similar speed increases. Those arguments are becoming irrelevant and headed for laughable.

wmccullough 10y ago
I agree. Even if they decided to keep everything as x86, just rebuilding the COM pieces would boost performance.
- dethswatch 10y ago
  Articles I've read says the Win and App divisions are still in love with COM and when Sinofsky got his way, we got 'Windows Store Apps' where everything ran under COM instead of everything running under .NET. Enter Win8 debacle and Sinofsky wisely decided he'd do other things.
  - int_19h 10y ago
    WinRT is the name of the thing, and while it's derived from COM (you still have IUnknown, for example), it fixes a lot of the latter's problems and fills missing gaps. For example, it has class inheritance (implemented as composition), a much simpler event pattern, drastically simplifies the whole apartment mess etc.

sreenadh 10y ago

Being a long time vs & MS user myself, your suspicion is genuine. I too suspect the same. I have been burnt too many times by MS. So now, the only ms products I use is skype & ms office.